Calling Obama fans "hard left" basically disappears down the memory hole anybody to the left of, oh, say, maybe a liiiitle to the left of center. I mean, seriously, do you believe that the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is as far left as it goes?
The hard left despises Obama for being a capitalist whose policies in the GWOT are more or less the same as his predecessor's, for being another Bill Clinton accommodationist who's more interested in cuddling up to and making pointless compromises with a right wing that despises him and wants him dead than any sort of actual left agenda. He's a Democrat, which is bad enough, and he's the worst kind of Democrat- the sort that fears the Republicans more than their own constituency.
I'm talking about people well left of the Green Party. I'm talking about people who have well developed critiques of national and international capitalism (and international socialist organizations, too). They were damned fond of Obama.
Ah, yes. Rejecting reality when it doesn't conform to your ideology. I hope you'll outgrow that someday, young man. If not you may end up like Michael Savage and other once stalwart leftists who defected to the other side. Maybe you'll even throw your own tea party.
Yes, being to the left of the Democrats means that you'll someday be a fascist. Good analysis there, really demonstrates why the Democrats are such an unstoppable force.
You might try spending a little more time reading what people actually write and say and a little less time shaping it to flatter your ego. Being in touch with reality is a handy skill. I wrote absolutely nothing like your statement above. I'm well to the left of the Democrats and have been since before you were old enough to vote.
Skepticism is great. Given your apparent preference for making declarations of opinion as if they are fact and apparent disinterest in actually engaging people in dialog, I'm content to excuse you from anything you'd like. You can't begin to make any change in the world until you're aware of the actual facts on the ground around you. Life is complex. People are full of contradictions. They rarely fall into simplistic, black and white categories or dichotomies. Deciding that you are the final arbiter of reality and that the world and the people in it must conform to your ideas and preconceptions is folly. It's a folly that is no less common amongst political ideologues than it is amongst religious fundamentalists. That is a fact for which I am quite grateful. That particularly flaw in the way fundamentalists and ideologues engage the world seems to prevent both groups from being effective enough to actually gain the control they seek, regardless of the supposed altruism or libertarianism in their professed creed.
Okay, fine, let's get empirical. Can you provide me with actual evidence of actual hard leftists- not Democrats, not liberals, not "progressives", but actual leftists- who think Obama is some kind of messiah, demigod, or whatever?
I mean, crap, the linked post uses the phrase "hard-left liberal", which is the stupidest, most self-contradictory nonsense I've seen in days.
I would really love to be able to just put you in touch with some people I know who are truly leftists and let them explain their own support for Obama.
Woah, woah, if we redefine down to "supporting" Obama, then hell, that's easy- I support Obama simply because I think he's less of a piece of shit than McCain would've been.
I'm not saying they thought he was the messiah or whatever.
That was in fact the point that this argument was about.
My first comment to you was in response to your statement that you found it hard to believe that anyone on the hard left could be described as having positive feelings for Obama. "Positive feelings". Not "both guys are pieces of shit, but Obama is less of a piece of shit". These people had actual positive feelings for Obama. Some of them, like the author of the linked post above, went to rallies, volunteered, etc. They are both "hard leftists" in their analysis and beliefs and yet had positive feelings for Obama.
My best theory as to why is that some of them got a little too caught up in the spectacle of the US electing a black man as president. But even that, I think, only describes some of them.
I strongly dislike Obama, but I voted for him and encouraged people to do the same. Unless the Republicans have aneurysms and nominate somebody better, I'll be doing the same in 2012. I think he's the least worst. That doesn't mean I like him.
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The hard left despises Obama for being a capitalist whose policies in the GWOT are more or less the same as his predecessor's, for being another Bill Clinton accommodationist who's more interested in cuddling up to and making pointless compromises with a right wing that despises him and wants him dead than any sort of actual left agenda. He's a Democrat, which is bad enough, and he's the worst kind of Democrat- the sort that fears the Republicans more than their own constituency.
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I mean, crap, the linked post uses the phrase "hard-left liberal", which is the stupidest, most self-contradictory nonsense I've seen in days.
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Woah, woah, if we redefine down to "supporting" Obama, then hell, that's easy- I support Obama simply because I think he's less of a piece of shit than McCain would've been.
I'm not saying they thought he was the messiah or whatever.
That was in fact the point that this argument was about.
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My best theory as to why is that some of them got a little too caught up in the spectacle of the US electing a black man as president. But even that, I think, only describes some of them.
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