Consider: If we had painted the apple blue before we give it to her, is it possible she would have said "You tried to fool me, this is blue"?
She could easily determine whether the apple is, in fact, red or not by performing a series of simple experiments with basic equipment. I don't, however, believe she would be able to make the determination based on her own vision if she has had no prior experience with colour. She would, of course, be able to tell different colours apart, but I don't believe she would innately understand which was which, just that they are different from one another.
(Think about identifying animals... If you've never seen a moose before, or a deer, or a horse, would you instinctively know which was which when presented with only a moose?)
.....and I should add that the names and "qualities" we give to colour are arbitrary, and in some instances can be unique to our cultural backgrounds. What we "experience" when we see a colour, other than the colour itself, is a very ingrained emotional response to the experience, based on previous experiences with that colour, as well as what we are "trained" or taught to experience in relation to that colour.
I think we try to interpret "implicit body reactions" too much... You know your heart beats... But it would still beat if you didnt know... Knowing the precise mechanics of a heartbeat isnt gonna make your heart beat better...
Same goes for colors, you "understand" the color from the implicit reactions of "seeing" that are caused by it. Had you been taught (by example, seeing the blue apple) that the implicit reactions that you recognise as blue are in fact red, wouldnt invalidate the fact that this it is blue... its just a name... Mary wouldnt know that red isnt blue...
just my opinion, qualia = implicit reaction of the "human" (body, mind, soul?)
very cool. as someone who has difficulty conceiving of things without language, it pleases me that there exists something beyond language that we can experience. and that we have a word for it.
Very cool! There actually is a "Mary" btw. Her name is Susan Barry (an associate professor of biological sciences at Mount Holyoke college). Susan was born with crossed eyes, and never developed stereoscopic vision (the ability to see in 3 dimensions) . She was not, however aware that she was missing this until years later as she was studying neuroscience. She had her own sort of qualia, when she witnessed a snow fall for the "first time". I watched the snow fall for several minutes, and, as I watched, I was overcome with a deep sense of joy. A snowfall can be quite beautiful--especially when you see it for the first time."
Her story is here, and is often referenced as a more realistic example of the Mary story to move fwd the notion of qualia:
This phenomena is actually not all that uncommon. It is sometimes called "binocular vision". I first encountered the idea in a Diana Gabaldon novel (from an awesome but very silly historical fiction series). I was intriqued and read up on it. It is really cool. My mother now thinks she may have this as an explanation for why she can't play any sport that requires you to hit a moving object with a stick or racket.
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She could easily determine whether the apple is, in fact, red or not by performing a series of simple experiments with basic equipment. I don't, however, believe she would be able to make the determination based on her own vision if she has had no prior experience with colour. She would, of course, be able to tell different colours apart, but I don't believe she would innately understand which was which, just that they are different from one another.
(Think about identifying animals... If you've never seen a moose before, or a deer, or a horse, would you instinctively know which was which when presented with only a moose?)
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You know your heart beats... But it would still beat if you didnt know...
Knowing the precise mechanics of a heartbeat isnt gonna make your heart beat better...
Same goes for colors, you "understand" the color from the implicit reactions of "seeing" that are caused by it. Had you been taught (by example, seeing the blue apple) that the implicit reactions that you recognise as blue are in fact red, wouldnt invalidate the fact that this it is blue... its just a name... Mary wouldnt know that red isnt blue...
just my opinion, qualia = implicit reaction of the "human" (body, mind, soul?)
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There actually is a "Mary" btw. Her name is Susan Barry (an associate professor of biological sciences at Mount Holyoke college). Susan was born with crossed eyes, and never developed stereoscopic vision (the ability to see in 3 dimensions) . She was not, however aware that she was missing this until years later as she was studying neuroscience. She had her own sort of qualia, when she witnessed a snow fall for the "first time".
I watched the snow fall for several minutes, and, as I watched, I was overcome with a deep sense of joy. A snowfall can be quite beautiful--especially when you see it for the first time."
Her story is here, and is often referenced as a more realistic example of the Mary story to move fwd the notion of qualia:
http://138.110.28.9/offices/comm/news/newsfull.shtml?portal_id=2JGD4D2HvyUDCnnQJDD_0gQ_&node=4382214&full=1
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My mother now thinks she may have this as an explanation for why she can't play any sport that requires you to hit a moving object with a stick or racket.
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That is literally the best book of all time.
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