THG fic: "Spin Control" [22/24]

[trovia]

Title: Spin Control
Pairings: Finnick/Haymitch, Kat/Peeta
Characters: Finnick, Haymitch, Chaff, Peeta, Gale, Kat; plus appearances by Mags, Johanna, Caesar Flickerman, President Snow, Effie, Claudius Templesmith, Beetee, Prim, Thresh, Rue, District Twelve ensemble and various OC
Rating: adult
Warnings: forced prostitution & non-con; people dealing

Comments

[roguedemon]

Okay, this was awesome. I just wrote a whole comment which got lost because the system logged me off at the exact moment I posted it. Now I want to kill myself. I just have no more time today. I'll have to come back later on and try to recreate it. But anyway....Peeta's cave painting was genius. My favorite moment. And, yep, he actually killed Foxface. Also loved the way you reframed the gift of bread to show what it actually meant for Thresh. Well done. :)

There probably will be some people with pitchforks, but I've got your back with a grenade launcher.

Finnick and Haymitch working the whole circus like pros and having each other's backs made me happy. I was afraid they were going to fall apart completely again after last chapter.

I will come back to all the stuff with Cherry and her willful ignorance another time, it deserves a bit more attention (and it provided a good answer to the question, why can't Finnick just get Viagra?). Poor Finnick, I think if he had a choice he would do nothing but shower and sleep for a few days.

You had better be chained to your laptop writing your way out of this cliffhanger, you Machiavellian genius you.

And that was the truncated version of my original comment, damnit.

[trovia]

Oh, I must have forgotten to reply to this. Apologies. And guh, that sucks when the comment vanishes, there's nothing more annoying. Thanks for writing it again. :)

Peeta seems to have hit home for a lot of people with his criminal energy. ;) Heh, I've been getting so many comments on that.

Finnick and Haymitch have pulled through so far, but we'll see about the next chapter. They're too used to the Games cirucs - hah - though to fall apart when there's success looming on the horizon. It's a powerful motivator.

I remain forever intrigued by Cherry, whenever I write a new tantalizing line about her. ;) Finnick feels like she's so close to him but at the same time, he's acutely aware of how she belongs in the Capitol.

Again, thank you. :))

[roguedemon]

I only have a few minutes, but I thought I would get started on my comments for this chapter. You deserve ALL the comments after all your hard work.

I think it's amusing how all the Everlark people seemed to zero in on these last chapters. Then there was that one Katniss stan that kept insisting that Katniss' pigheadedness is what makes her awesome. Um, if she's actually read and paid attention to the fic, it's pretty obvious that blowing off your mentor is pretty stupid. But please don't think the fault is in your writing. Everything is in there, loud and clear. And honestly, if you've read this entire fic and your main concern is Everlark, what is wrong with you? This fic is clearly about Finnick and Haymitch and their struggles to create a life worth living whilst trapped in a situation that does everything to make life unlivable. The whole fic is about Finnick changing things, so why would the stans expect everything to be exactly the same? The fact is, most people are not very smart.

Regarding Katniss, I liked the way you wrote her. You acknowledged both her strengths and weaknesses. The girl has skills: I always thought the idea to target the careers' food stash was inspired. But this fic makes it even more clear that in the end it was really Haymitch and Peeta that saved her ass, and created the Mockinjay. They were the ones that crafted the narrative that got her sponsors and fans. Without them, she would have gone it alone, taken a few people with her, and ultimately perished at the hands of Cato after she dropped the nest on the careers. Or something similar. Moving on, I loved how you delved into the issue of her teaming up with Rue and the repercussions of the send-off she gave her. This is an area where Katniss' refusal to listen to advice really bit her in the ass. There are good reasons to avoid teaming up with cute 12-year-olds during the games (one of them being you'll have to kill them and that looks horrible to everyone watching). In this case, Rue was genuinely helpful to her -- I would love to see an AU where Rue doesn't get killed by Marvel and Katniss is forced to make the tough choice. But her naive tribute to Rue has repercussions she never dreamed of. Without the love story, I wonder if Katniss wouldn't have just been targeted by the Gamemakers almost immediately. Thanks to Peeta and Haymitch, there was a way to shift the focus for the viewers, a reason to keep her alive and later, a way to spin her actions so her sister wasn't immediately executed or whatever. Because she's so oblivious, she has no idea what can happen to her and her loved ones because of her actions. And now, Haymitch is about to try to save her ass.

[trovia]

Um, if she's actually read and paid attention to the fic, it's pretty obvious that blowing off your mentor is pretty stupid.

Heh. There's two kinds of fans, I think. The ones who love a character for their flaws and the ones who are unable to see that they have any, therefor everything about them has to be awesome by definition. I'm just noticing this all over again as I'm watching House and finding myself madly in love with this character Chase. Chase is a wimp. He has no backbone. He sucks up to people with authority. It's terrible. Yet I find myself so very entertained. He's just so interesting. It's his complex psychology that's doing it for me, of course. It's the opposite of that kind of Everlark fans.

Somebody else pointed out to me that Everlark, as the book protagonists, tend to take over a fic as soon as they make an appearance, and I guess that is true. But yeah, obviously it's not a fic about Peeta and Kat. And frankly, Peeta and Kat's fate will have no impact on whether or not there will be a happy ending. That's all about Finnick and Haymitch.

Kat definitely has real skill, but I think the books did a very good job highlighting how she won because a lot of different things were working out in her favor. It is also implied that she might not have won if not for Peeta's help and the rule change. She's skilled and smart, but so are Cato and Clove and Thresh and Foxface.

I've seen good fic where Rue killed Kat. Another one where Marvel killed Kat and then Rue killed Peeta. Fun was had. :D

[roguedemon]

Re: there being two kinds of fans, that pertains to a lot of stuff I have been thinking of lately regarding fic. I have read a lot of HG fic by this point, and I think this is a fandom where those issues are especially relevant because all the characters are flawed in their own way, and there is a lot of fic where characterizations are hit or miss. For instance, you'll see people that nail Joanna and Finnick but portray Annie as this frail girl because they want to concentrate on J/F or they just don't understand mental illness and didn't think about Annie beyond Katniss' dismissal of her. Or fics that want to highlight the heroism of certain characters and end up erasing their flaws. That is one thing that is wonderful about your portrayal of Haymitch, for instance. He's overweight and slowly dealing with withdrawal and sobriety and that's okay. You highlight his intelligence and compassion but you don't make him into an action hero. For instance, it's really unlikely that Haymitch is going to be able to detox, work out for a couple of months before the Quell, and then replace Peeta in the arena and keep up with Finnick and Katniss, fight the careers, etc. And that's real, and it doesn't make him weak. The body at 40 is a lot different from the body you have in your teens and twenties, and you can't just shrug off physical damage -- it takes much,much longer to recover from illness (which is not to say that Haymitch couldn't get back into good shape, it would just take a while). I don't know, this is one thing that has jumped out at me about your writing as I have been looking around at different portrayals of Haymitch. You show he doesn't have to be perfect (physically or otherwise) in order to be desirable, and that's real. He's a more sedentary person, he's not interested in sparring with Finnick in your fic, and I think a lot of authors want to show Haymitch getting in shape, losing weight, or whatever. And of course, you also show Finnick's weaknesses along with his strengths and the way he and Haymitch complement each other is the greatest thing about this pairing.

Oh and if you have any good fic recs about alternate versions of the 74th games, I'd love them. I'd also love anything that shows Gale's POV and portrays him as something besides a one-note villain.

[trovia]

You absolutely need to read all the THG fic by lorataprose (lorata on AO3). Her fic is very oriented towards plot and worldbuilding, not as much with the psychology as me, but her characterizations are extremely sound as well. She wrote a great Rue/Prim thing where Rue won the Quell. That's the only 74th HG one that I can recall at the top of my head, but I'll tell you more as they occur to me.

For instance, you'll see people that nail Joanna and Finnick but portray Annie as this frail girl because they want to concentrate on J/F or they just don't understand mental illness and didn't think about Annie beyond Katniss' dismissal of her.

Ugh, yeah. But I do think you hit on something there when you say they want to focus on the one thing, so they dismiss the other. I think that's really the big problem. Annie isn't what they're there for, so they refuse to put any thought in it. (there's a fairy tale AU out there somewhere in which Annie is a poor orphan married off to Finnick without ever getting to give consent. I'm told the writer is an Everlark fan. She wanted to make it about Kat and Peeta first, then realized that Peeta comes across as a creep, and changed it to Annie and Finnick to keep her precious Everlark intact. :p The thought that there might be Annie/Finnick fans out there who might object never seemed to cross her mind.)

But also, I'm sometimes mind-boggled by how there can be so many different interpretations of the same character floating about. I notice this most strongly about Loki. Loki/Jane shippers write a completely different Loki from Loki/Tony shippers, and then there are the Loki/Thor people with a third interpretation. (I don't do incest, but I very much enjoy the platonic versions) It's kind of wild.

Haymitch losing weight and becoming one of the cool kids is one of my biggest peeves. I like that he's overweight. I want him to stay that way. I don't think that weight indicates how happy or healthy you are, and I don't see why he should need to change shape to have a better life. I've never understood anyway why some people make such an effort to make characters different from what they were like in canon. (wholesome character development excepted obviously) We liked him overweight in canon, what makes people think that readers would want him slender in fic? I'm personally not overweight - I'm underweight if anything - but I've only ever dated overweight people. I find them more pleasantly shaped, as a rule. One thing I was absolutely sure about before I started on SP was that Haymitch shouldn't lose weight, and that Finnick shouldn't feel attracted to him despite his weight but because of it. Haymitch never struck me as a character who had any interest in sport whatsoever. I think a big part of him gained weight gleefully as a way of leaving both the starvation and the fighting shape behind - he was out of the Games, he didn't need to be in shape anymore, he'd won that right. If he's never as much as wanted to do it before, I can't see him having an easy time suddenly becoming an athlete, even if the plot should require it.

[roguedemon]

My personal headcanon is that in comparison to Capitol people Haymitch just plain feels good to Finnick: more sensual, more comforting, etc. depending on the mood at the time. In my head, Finnick never really gets over being cold in winter, given than he has about 5% body fat and grew up in such a warm climate. He always needs to use Haymtich as his personal heater/pillow during cold weather. And Haymitch is totally okay with that. ;)

I just needed to think happy Finnick/Haymitch thoughts today, you know?

[trovia]

I love everything about that. :) Haymitch would be so very fine with that. ♥

[roguedemon]

BTW, we are totally brain twins. Chase was always my favorite character on House, and this comment inspired me to go on Netlfix and rewatched a bunch of episodes. I really thought he had the most interesting journey on the show, they really allowed him to struggle throughout the series and I think he changed the most of all the characters while still, of course, having a long way to go when the series ended. Also, I really loved Park, she made season 8 better, she was a different kind of female character (i.e., different from the thin pretty woman that is a requirement of American network TV shows), I loved that she was a geek that stood her ground even when she was struggling to find her way. I also think S8 was a great season for Chase. Anyway, any time you want to obsess over that show I'll be happy to do so.

[trovia]

There are so so many things I'd like to discuss with you about Chase! Guh. Especially now that I've seen some House fic and people have... interesting ideas about this show. (to be fair, it's hideously hard to write fanfic about it, I bet) This is very awesome.

Like I was struck by how fandom seems to have this big pet peeve about that series of S2 episodes when this management guy Vogler is threatening to fire people from Diagnostics, so Chase basically sells out House to him (giving Vogler information about House) and making a deal that he won't get fired. Everybody seems to be in such a huff about that, like every fanfic out there seems to be busy explaining away that grand betrayal. To me, all of it makes perfect sense. I essentially look at House as a show about an asshole that got away with it - a bully who got away with it - a truly awful, terrible boss. He's mean and hurtful, when it comes down to it, no matter how much he knows that and no matter how likable he is. It's interesting to think about what kinds of people would be drawn to working with him and why Cameron, Chase, Foreman and the later fellows would put up with him, but fact is, you don't earn loyalty like that. House really has it coming there. The fun part is, unlike fandom, House seems to know that: There's this thing where he asks Chase, after the fact, why he shouldn't just fire him, and Chase says basically, "Because you can't" and House accepts that. House sees his own flaw there and the audience apparently doesn't.

I'm generally really fascinated by Chase's journey, the way he goes from trying so so hard to not care about anything to tumbling into this head-over-heels relationship with Cameron, the emotionally detached guy suddenly transforming into what's such a normal boyfriend of the gentle, committed variety that it's shocking. Then after that falls apart, I find intriguing that he reacts by going on this casual sex spree. It seems to be connected to his faith and how he moves farther and farther away from it throughout the show, rejecting more of those proper Catholic ways as he goes. (working with the premise that marriage for life, three kids and a picket fence are ultimately an expression of a Christian lifestyle) He's never happy with those choices after Cameron, though. I keep wondering if I should regard the fact that he ends up single but with House's job as a happy ending for him or not. I personally find it pretty awesome, because I like my characters competent. But I do wonder if that's what he actually wants with his life, particularly since his issues with his private life don't seem to be sorted at that point. (especially highlighted when you can see in the final episode that Cameron married some other dude and got a baby, what with Chase quite clearly being meant to be a fantastic father) Anyway. Plenty things to talk about. I thought I'd just start rambling. :)

[roguedemon]

Chase's seminary background was very intriguing to me, because I love to explore religious issues. I do think that it's always there for him, even when he rejects it. I think that in later seasons, he is working for House more because he realizes that he loves to "do crazy shit" than for any other reason. Once he sorts out some other personal issues, I think he does realize that he likes being able to engage in creative problem solving. I do like the way the creative process is depicted on the show. Medicine is definitely not an exact science. I like seeing how House and his team sweat through the diagnostic process until they finally get a break. It's a lot closer to the actual creative process: you work and work and your unconscious processes let things cook until you finally make a new connection. You don't just get brilliant ideas out of nowhere.

In regard to Chase, I do think he got what he wanted in his professional life. I really liked the episode where he met the nun. He thought he had fallen in love with her, but I think it was more that she showed him the possibility of something more. He identified with her struggle. That quick infatuation showed him that he wanted to be on a different path. And the fact that he always seems to jump into things with both feet reveals that he really wants something more out of his personal life, even if he's not sure what it is.

[roguedemon]

I loved the title, and I loved the imagery because of course Finnick sees the world in terms of swimming and storms. :) The title can really have a double meaning. One one hand, Finnick is just trying to keep swimming long enough to weather the trials this Games keeps throwing at him. The whole thing is a big storm inside his head, he's off kilter and just trying to keep his head above water. And then of course there is the storm Katniss inadvertently kicked up which can drown them all. It's great to see how acutely aware Finnick is of the danger they are in, it's a completely different perspective on the books and runs contrary to the Katniss stans. Without knowing what she's doing, she's put everyone's head in the noose along with her. And I loved the call back to Annie's Games. Btw, I loved the Annie ficlet you wrote on Tumblr a while back. It was great to see baby!Finnick before everything happened to him. Scared, awkward, but still having the instinct to reach out to the crowds. I loved the "fisherman's brat" description. And I loved getting inside Annie's head. I'm sure your Annie would really be something.

I am intrigued by what you said about Cherry. What's her story? And how does Finnick actually feel about her? I see the stylists being like the escorts in many ways: their careers are based on dressing kids up for the slaughter, often in really inappropriate clothing. Later on, they get to prepare Victors to be sold off to the highest bidder, or in the best case scenario just to act out their role in the whole genocidal farce. Cherry constantly dresses Finnick in demeaning whore costumes, yet remains determinedly ignorant of the real story. So I'd like to know how he deals with her, since we haven't seen her enough to get a sense of what their day-to-day interactions are like in the Capitol.

Well, I'll have more later. I am getting kicked out of yet another coffee shop. ;)

[trovia]

You know, I was so pleased with myself when the "swimmer in a storm" metaphor occurred to me. Obviously I'd been using the swimming metaphor before, most notably in the kissing chapter named for the title of the fic, in a positive way. So you just know you're screwed if the leading metaphor of the story comes back in a negative way. ;)

Chibi!Annie and Chibi!Finnick were fun. ;)

I know exactly as much as you do about Cherry. I compare her to Effie: Kat sort of likes Effie because she's spent enough time with her to get her on some level. I think it's hard to hate a person if they aren't treating you badly in a direct way and if you spend a lot of time working with them. I think it's similar between Finnick and Cherry. Intellectually, he knows the role that Cherry plays. Practically, he has to get along with her, and frankly he doesn't think about his complicated reactions to her much because it's just not that relevant. They have... a good working relationship? It's not a very personal one. Finnick can handle it like that, and Cherry is a very professional stylist who knows what's her job and what's not. I first introduced her in MOTR, when Finnick remembers how he first met Cherry. She redid all the costume designs the moment she met him and worked herself into exhaustion because she recognized she could do really great things with him, and then she took him to the Training Center roof and talked to him and told him she'd wanted to see who he really is before she made him someone else. I think she's a very smart person, but much like millari's Lucilla, she has developed a very complex rationale for what she does.

Those coffee shop owners should be nicer to you, with all the money you spend there. ;)

[roguedemon]

I always go to coffee shops to write, and they tend to close by 8:00 around here. I invariably end up taking much longer to write up my thoughts than I think I will, so I'm always typing away until they turn the wifi off. :)