The Anonymous Writing Feedback Meme
THE ANONYMOUS WRITING FEEDBACK MEME
Since it’s been more than half a year since the last one.
Let’s keep this simple. As a writer, do you want to know what readers really think of your writing?
THE ANONYMOUS WRITING FEEDBACK MEME
( Read more... )
as for your accusations on similarities in plot, details, and characters - first and foremost, after recalling what i could from the 10 or 11-some odd chapters of killer's nightmare that i did read, i could find no similarities whatsoever. other than jaejoong being a top assassin in his respective organization in each fic, i don't see any other similarities in character details. of course, i will be going through and rereading killer's nightmare to refresh my memory, so i'll get back to you on these so-called "similarities."
i don't intend to make it seem like i'm calling my "army of friends" to come defend me; they've come and commented on their own free will. i did not ask them to reply to you, so please do not harrass or attack them. this entire issue, from the very beginning, should have been something handled privately, via sending me a pm. sammirish herself could've sent me a message if she was so concerned, and i would've gladly tried to resolve things with her.
i am as against plagiarism as any writer out there. i still stand by the fact that i did not plagiarize anything in obsidian. obsidian is a piece of writing that mcgrjc6 and i created together, with influences and inspiration from a plethora of media: movies, books, anime/manga, and yes, even fics. there are three fics off the top of my head that obsidian was inspired by, and yes, killer's nightmare is one of them; however, there has been no plagiarization whatsoever of any of the fics from which obsidian has drawn inspiration.
i am currently analyzing both killer's nightmare and obsidian, and i am compiling lists. i'll be back later with a more detailed argument.
Reply
1. as you've said, the top assasin in their organization
2. haunting pasts
3. both saw family killed right in front of their eyes
4. using a treasured dagger.
your sunghee and my morte.
1. well, the presence of insane characters
2. your maiming/torturing before death. my torturing and digging out of organs.
yunho.
1. your first conflict or rather, contact between yunjae was because obsidian sent to kill his superior. tkn's yunjae first met in chapter 1 because hero was sent to kill yunho's boss.
2. in your chapter 5 and my chapter 1, both hero and obsidian used the lights to escape.
gen
1. yoochun used a syringe in chapter 5. jaejoong used another syringe in chapter 10. i did not say so in the fic, but that poison causes cardiac arrest. It was revealed to be poisonous plant (oleanders) sap in chapter 12. however, your last comment was at chapter 11. i acknowledge that. In your chapter 20b, heechul revealed to be using a syringe containing venom that might cause cardiac arrest.
Reply
here, i will cover the points you list that we did not cover in our analysis last night. then, in a separate comment, i'll give you our analysis from as objective a standpoint as possible.
2. haunting pasts
yes, both of them have 'haunting pasts,' but this is a highly common thing in many, if not most, fics in assassin/mafia/gangster verse. another fic in this verse that adopts a 'haunting past' is fragments of lies, and honestly, i have no doubt that there are more similar fics who have this element in dbsk fandom alone.
3. both saw family killed right in front of their eyes
to be honest, we derived this not from your fic, but from a japanese drama (based on a manga) called kurosagi, which i watched about 3 years ago. and specifically, like in kurosagi, jaejoong came home from school one day to find that his parents were already dead in his house. he did not witness their deaths.
furthermore, this was not explicitly revealed in killer's nightmare until chapter 13, which you had posted october 2008. by this time, obsidian was on chapter 18, and we had revealed this as well as the identity of the killer. while this is not a solid, reasonable point of argument, it shows that this was something we had already established and revealed before killer's nightmare, and thus further refutes the plagiarism accusation.
4. using a treasured dagger.
this is an erroneous assumption in obsidian; jaejoong has no sentimental value in his dagger. he uses it simply because it is a convenient weapon, and he is not the only assassin with multiple weapons. he cleans his dagger for maintenance purposes, as any other assassin would do, not because he has some emotional attachment to his blade.
your sunghee and my morte.
first of all, sunghee is a very, very minor character who appears and dies in the same chapter. he serves no other significance other than to injure jaejoong, whereas your morte, if i'm not mistaken, plays a much bigger role in your fic.
2. your maiming/torturing before death. my torturing and digging out of organs.
the maiming/torturing is primarily a device for background information and to give a qualifying nature to an antagonist. it is merely concidental, and what we had in mind was to create a minor antagonist that readers would not sympathize with. our sunghee is, for all intents and purposes, a standard representation of evil.
1. your first conflict or rather, contact between yunjae was because obsidian sent to kill his superior. tkn's yunjae first met in chapter 1 because hero was sent to kill yunho's boss.
yes, yunho and jaejoong did meet under those circumstances, BUT, if this was plagiarism, jaejoong would be meeting changmin by killing his superior. actually, yunho and jaejoong in obsidian met before jaejoong went to kill yunho's superior. they met in school. yunho also remains an antagonist to jaejoong throughout our entire fic.
2. in your chapter 5 and my chapter 1, both hero and obsidian used the lights to escape.
obsidian did not use the lights to escape; he walked out the door. he used the lights only as a distraction and as a method to cloak himself, particularly since he did not want yunho to see & recognize him.
In your chapter 20b, heechul revealed to be using a syringe containing venom that might cause cardiac arrest.
yes, there is a syringe, but (1) heechul did not use it in the end, (2) he was using it to perform a subtle kill in a hospital, and (3) this was not taken from your fic; it was inspired by the movie, the omen. having a common object in both fics does not constitute any form of plagiarism; this is like accusing of having a gun, or having a knife, or even having a car.
Reply
potential similarities, in which both mcgrjc6 and i argue our points:
- [1] jaejoong is a top assassin of his respective organization in each fic. (this holds true, but it is not enough in itself for a plagiarism accusation; chances are, any main character of an assassin/mafia/gangster verse fic will most likely be "the best" killer).
- [2] someone that has some involvement with yunho gets killed in each fic. (BUT: in obsidian, yunho does not try to find the killer for the purpose of revenge; he despises and looks to hurt jaejoong simply because jaejoong punched him. in TKN, changmin mentions to yunho that they'll try to find the killer of yunho's father. the yunho in obsidian could care less about the death of his father's co-chief executive officer and is more intent on despising jaejoong throughout the fic.)
- [3] jaejoong cooks for his respective significant other in each fic. (BUT: in obsidian, this is a minor detail and only happens in chapter 3; it has no other significance. in TKN, this is something of significant importance, as yunjae seem to bond through cooking lessons.)
- [4] jaejoong is taking revenge for his family. (this holds true, regardless of the fact that in obsidian, jaejoong only had parents, whereas in TKN, jaejoong apparently had sisters as well. however, this is a highly cliche element in any assassin/mafia/gangster verse fic, as writers attempt to give a more humanistic quality to their main character. who, after all, wants their main character to be purely evil? and, as mentioned before, this is an element derived not from TKN, but from the japanese drama kurosagi.)
- [5] the assassins in each fic try to avoid going to hospitals and must 'die in the battlefield,' so to speak. (this holds true, BUT: it is another highly cliche element in any assassin/mafia/gangster fic. in any storyline that wants to maintain some semblance of realism, it would be essential that the assassin characters not reveal their occupations; otherwise, what's the point of being an assassin only to get caught by something as simple as the law? the storyline wouldn't get far at all if it ended with an assassin getting incarcerated.)
- [6] jaejoong's employer is "crazy" or mentally unstable in some way. (this holds true and, to be honest, is something that is entirely coincidental. in obsidian, this fact is revealed in chapter 11, which was posted july 24 of 2008. in TKN, this is revealed in chapter 16, in february 2009.)
Reply
differences:
first and foremost, THE PLOTS ARE DIFFERENT. entirely, entirely different; one only has to read each fic respectively to realize this, from the very beginning. also, the following differences are pointed out only in the chapters that have been posted for each fic; there is no analysis here on anything that happens in future chapters.
obsidian:
- [1] jaejoong, changmin, yoochun, junsu, and yunho all go to the same college (they go to school). jaemin are poor students in a rich school, so (among other reasons) they at least bond over the fact that they're outcasts, more or less (this adds the characterization of their relationship).
- [2] no female characters play any substantial roles (the most we have are innocent, nameless bystanders who get killed, and then a couple nameless nurses).
- [3] has a set romance from the beginning (it started even before characters were introduced).
- [4] has one plotline.
- [5] three of the main characters (including jaejoong's significant other) are not assassins; they have nothing to do with that world and are completely outside of it.
- [6] contains explicit sexual scenes that serve to illustrate and add to the relationship between jaejoong and changmin.
- [7] has no such continuous, mysterious character posing threats.
- [8] has substantially less characters.
- [9] jaemin are the only relationship expounded upon as the main focus throughout.
- [10] no double factions; the main conflict of focus is all internal.
- [11] yoosu are insignificant.
- [12] contains numerous scenes in school that have major significance, especially in building characterization of relationships and the characters individually.
- [13] the main character has a very twisted and complex relationship with his employer.
- [14] one character actively and consistently goes against jaejoong throughout the fic, evident in interactions between them.
- [15] no such character exists; the top ranking assassins are not tampered with by anyone from below nor from an outside force.
- [16] this world revolves strictly around assassins.
- [17] yunho is only the son of a corporate president; he assumes no leadership of any underground organization.
- [18] focuses strictly on the revenge-assassin plotline throughout the fic.
- [19] changmin is not a hacker, nor is he actively and willingly involved in the assassin world.
- [20] assassin ranking is of very little significance; the reader knows who the top assassins are, but it's all more or less based on favoritism.
Reply
the killer's nightmare:
- [1] none of the characters attend school.
- [2] female characters play important roles and have substantial relationships with the main characters.
- [3] romance develops later on in the fic.
- [4] more than one plotline.
- [5] all of the main characters (including jaejoong's significant other) are assassins, gang members, hackers, or someone highly involved in the assassin/mafia/gangster world.
- [6] does not have sexual scenes (thus far).
- [7] has a "crazy" and mysterious assailant that appears to be killing people everywhere and is a continuous character.
- [8] has substantially more characters.
- [9] yunjae and yoosu are equally elaborated upon in terms of relationship.
- [10] has two factions that seem to be in conflict with one another as the main focus. may be some internal conflict but unclear.
- [11] yoosu are one of the main couples throughout the entire fic.
- [12] no school scenes; no characters attend school.
- [13] the relationship between the main character and the main character's employer is barely hinted upon (they don't seem to have met yet).
- [14] there is no one character that goes against jaejoong throughout the fic.
- [15] there seems to be one character going after and taking out (killing) the top ranking assassins.
- [16] this world revolves around the mafia/gangsters.
- [17] yunho is a mafia boss.
- [18] has a multitude of plotlines that interweave into a complex web (yunjae, yoosu, "number 4", internal mafia stuff on yunho's side, internal assassin stuff, yunho's revenge for his father, jaejoong's revenge, etc.)
- [19] changmin is a hacker and is actively involved in the mafia/gangster world.
- [20] assassin ranking has an active importance that affects characters' motives and is an important part of the plot (pretty much the reason for "number 4's" actions).
Reply
these are among the numerous differences we found; there are obviously more, but many of them are too complicated to elaborate upon without simply retelling the fic word for word. such differences are most apparent in characterization and plot. each fic's plot is different from beginning to end (or rather, as far as what's been posted): what happens, what progresses throughout each plotline (or plotlines, in the case of TKN), how the characters react to circumstances, how characters react to each other, etc. furthermore, some so-called "similarities" between the fics must take into account when they were revealed and posted; some details were revealed and posted in obsidian before they were revealed and posted in TKN. we've also had our outline for obsidian written and done, planned out with specifically what happens chapter by chapter, by the end of summer 2008; however, we realize this is not something we can prove. having things "planned" for each fic is not a valid argument on either side.
the characterization is not something i will touch upon, simply because it is completely different for every character in each fic. the characterization of jaejoong in obsidian is different from the characterization of jaejoong in TKN, and if you read both fics thoroughly, this is highly evident. in brief, jaejoong in obsidian is a killing machine and a lover from the beginning: he is outstandingly loyal to his employer, but when he comes home to changmin, he changes completely; he's soft and hard at the same time. in TKN, jaejoong seems to be steel-hearted and cold and hasn't seemed to really opened up; however, we won't judge further on jaejoong's characterization in TKN in order to avoid making erroneous assumptions.
more than anything, the "similarities" are coincidences and cliche occurrences. you must realize that you are not the first person to come up with such ideas. our influences from TKN are only to a certain extent; obsidian draws mostly from other forms of media, particularly movies and film. if i were to think about it, the only influences obsidian drew from TKN is (1) the fact that it's an assassin fic, and (2) the revelation that jaejoong would make an awesome assassin.
the fics that i mentioned were inspirations for obsidian, other than TKN, are fragments of lies and because of you. however, to clarify, these fics were inspirations only as far as inspiring the type of fic we wanted to write. our thought processes went something along of lines of: "ooh, badass jaejoong is cool (from 'because of you'). oh, assassin jaejoong is cool, too (from 'fragments of lies' and 'the killer's nightmare'). we should write a badass assassin!jaejoong fic!" yes, this sounds very elementary, but it is the truth. TKN, along with these other fics, inspired the general idea of what we wanted to write; we did not take anything specifically from any of these fics.
please direct all future responses to me via pm.
Reply
You have to know you are freaking smart and damn polite!!!!!!!!!
now go back to write and forget about people who doesnt know what plagirism is.
:D
\o/
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment