Beyond Mitt's Underwear: Part 3: The Preexistence, Creation, and Plan for Salvation

[tongodeon]

Father in Heaven (Elohiem) and His wives live near the star called Kolob on a pair of magic stones. They were once mortal humans just like we are and have retained their physical bodies of flesh and bone, but instead of blood they have “spirit matter, a substance which is more refined and pure and glorious than blood”. At the time of creation

Comments

[ianvass]

Yes, it is. It is the definition of a tone argument. It is an argument that my position is wrong because it is not presented nicely enough, which is, say it with me, A TONE ARGUMENT.

It's only a tone argument if I say *I'm* blowing you off because you're being a jerk, which I'm not. I disagree with you on a completely different level. I may not choose to engage with you if you're being a jerk, but that's still not a tonal argument because you could be a jerk and tell me that the sky is blue, and I'd still not want to engage. I desire to have polite, respectful debate, and when that vanishes, I have no desire to be a part of it.

Still not a tonal argument so far.

All I am doing is trying to be helpful by pointing out to you that people are primarily emotional, and that no rationality can take hold if your jerkiness gets in the way of your message when you are talking to other people.

That's telling you that since many people get wrapped up emotionally, you can very easily deliver your message in such a way that your emotions do not cloud your argument with them. The tonal argument exists, and many people do it, and it's wiser, when you are serious about trying to persuade them, to not invite them into that place.

So, no - not a tonal argument. The fact that you act like a jerk sometimes is a true statement, and that statement has nothing to do with my personal acceptance or rejection of your message.

None of which addressed the ACTUAL issue, of course, which I note you have attempted to deflect.

I can totally understand how it might look like that. The truth is that 1) I am working (at home, but still working), 2) I have several meetings today so my time to write is limited, and 3) right when I was sitting down to draft the next part of my response, a child my wife was babysitting puked everywhere in our bedroom (the joys of having a very small apartment - I don't have a single place I can go to to be isolated from the chaos), so I got drafted to help clean up. It took all my extra time this morning.

I may have some time this afternoon to respond, but I may not. Could be a day or two before I can continue. Everything I just said applies, so you'll have to wait until I can get to it this afternoon or tomorrow.

[theweaselking]

It's only a tone argument if I say *I'm* blowing you off because you're being a jerk, which I'm not.

Oh, I see, you're just CONCERNED that if I keep talking that way OTHER PEOPLE might blow me off because I'm not nice enough - but not you, no, not you at all, you're just CONCERNED that I might offend OTHER PEOPLE.

Which is to say: it's still a tone argument, but you've couched it as a concern troll.

Not better.

I can totally understand how it might look like that. The truth is that

Oh you WOULD have responded to what was actually said, but you have a REAL LIFE and you're just TOO BUSY so you spent all that time not answering the question but ran out of time to answer the question because you do REAL things, right? Someone who had enough time would obviously not understand the REAL WORLD, right?

Hint: "deflection for dummies" and "how to hide when you're losing an argument" are not guides, nor are they checklists. You should not be running through them and making sure to hit every point.

[ianvass]

Which is to say: it's still a tone argument, but you've couched it as a concern troll.

Not better.

You= not interested in hearing any kind of constructive feedback (probably just from me, since I cannot imagine you'd be like this in your IRL world), and actively re-construing said constructive feedback as offensive. Check. That's cool, I'll stop.

Hint: "deflection for dummies" and "how to hide when you're losing an argument" are not guides, nor are they checklists. You should not be running through them and making sure to hit every point.

*shrug* I can say that I'm not doing that, but it seems as though you are in "Take offence where none was intended" mode. That's fine - I don't think anything I say will change your mind at all, but I *am* having a lot of fun challenging myself to express myself better.