Beyond Mitt's Underwear: Part 1: Apostasy and Restoration

[tongodeon]

Mitt Romney is sewing up the nomination for President. Mormons are excited about the first modern Mormon candidate. (Joseph Smith announced his candidacy for President of the United States in January 1844, but was killed several months later.) Everyone else is curious about Mormons. Unfortunately, most people only seem to know they don’t drink

Comments

[ianvass]

And I'm happy to fact check for you along the way. :)

Prophet Joseph Smith grew up in a Masonic household

While this might be true, I haven't seen anything stating this explicitly.

There were true ordinances as practiced by Adam in the Garden of Eden, but these practices had been corrupted by the “whore of all the earth” - the "great and abominable church" which was founded by the devil.

The principles and ordinances of the Mormon gospel are now the same in Adam’s day as they are today.

Nah, we don't preach that our ordinances are the same as what Adam practiced - heck, they've been altered twice since I've been going, so that isn't true. There might be some similarities, even largely so, but we have no specific doctrines claiming anything of the sort.

(The temple endowment ceremony features Satan enlisting help from a Protestant preacher.)

False.

that Adam performed Mormon rituals at Adam-ondi-Ahman on Spring Hill in Daviess County, Missouri.

See above.

Mormons still believe that Jesus’ Second Coming will occur at Spring

[ianvass]

Also:

Mormons are excited about the first Mormon candidate.

SOME Mormons are excited about this. Many of us are apprehensive since we are doubtful that Mitt accurately represents us. Harry Reid comes nowhere close to representing us, and I'm sure Mitt comes closer than that, but still. Not to mention that this absolutely represents a whole lot of media coverage, much of which will misrepresent us, whether maliciously or not.

And technically, this is not true either - Joseph Smith had put his hat in the ring as a candidate for President of the US, though he did not get very far before he was assassinated. We can say this is the first world-known candidate. :)

[tongodeon]

Joseph Smith had put his hat in the ring as a candidate for President of the US, though he did not get very far before he was assassinated.

Good catch. I knew that, but forgot. Thanks for the correction.

[ianvass]

(The temple endowment ceremony features Satan enlisting help from a Protestant preacher.)

False, currently. There used to be a preacher in the endowment over 20 years ago, but there was no mention of religious affiliation. He could have been Baptist, Lutheran, Protestant, or non-denominational.

[tongodeon]

There used to be a preacher in the endowment over 20 years ago

Confirmed. I've edited the post.

[ianvass]

And by your own post's reference, you should also remove the reference to it being a Protestant preacher. As I said, there was no mention of denomination.

[talldean]

Aren't all preachers Protestants?

[ianvass]

*shrug* I suppose strictly speaking, that might be true, but I talked to someone who attended the temple before I went (I got endowed in 1992), and they confirmed that there was no mention or hint of denomination.

[tongodeon]

I've found numerous references to that priest being Protestant specifically, so I'm leaving it in for now.

[ianvass]

Fair enough. It's not a major deal one way or the other.

[tongodeon]

While this might be true, I haven't seen anything stating this explicitly.

Lots of mormons don't know lots of things about their church history, and I'm expecting certain parts of my overview to be as surprising to you as it is to non-mormons.

Anyway I assure you it is true. This will be an important point later on to understand (spoiler!) where some of the iconography, temple endowment ceremony, and signs and tokens came from.

we don't preach that our ordinances are the same as what Adam practiced

I hope you clicked the link to LDS.org which says that "the first principles and ordinances of the gospel were the same in Adam’s day as they are today." I hoped you'd find LDS.org authoritative, so I copied this sentence verbatim to avoid dispute.

Also, you're going to have to show some citations for the rest of your claims other than just saying "False". Especially since you can follow the links to the LDS church web pages saying what I say they're saying.

[ianvass]

Anyway I assure you it is true. This will be an important point later on to understand (spoiler!) where some of the iconography, temple endowment ceremony, and signs and tokens came from.

Actually, according to the link you posted (from Wikipedia), it is unclear if Joseph Smith, Sr was a Mason while Joseph Jr was growing up (he was one for sure later), so you cannot state categorically that JS Jr was raised in a Masonic household. It's those kinds of subtle misrepresentations that can cause problems down the road, so while it's a minor nitpick, it's still one that should be corrected.

As for the temple stuff, yeah yeah yeah. I already know about it and am looking forward to making some clarifications for you. :)

I hope you clicked the link to LDS.org which says that "the first principles and ordinances of the gospel were the same in Adam’s day as they are today." I hoped you'd find LDS.org authoritative, so I copied this sentence verbatim to avoid dispute.No, I was not disputing the link, I was disputing the implication, though I

[ianvass]

Mormons still believe that Jesus’ Second Coming will occur at Spring Hill, where Adam will return the priesthood keys to him.

False. The Second Coming will be worldwide, and everyone will know it. What happens at Adam-ondi-Ahman will be a meeting that even most of the Mormon church will not know about where the priesthood keys will be given up through all the major prophets to Adam, who will give it to Jesus Christ. This will occur prior to the full Second Coming.

Here you go - under religious significance, it says that BEFORE the Second Coming, this meeting will occur.

[tongodeon]

OK, I think my wording was 90% correct as-is (that's where Adam returns the priesthood keys to Jesus) but I reworked that sentence a bit.