The Hard Sell

May 25, 2010 17:34

I've heard - often, from lots of different people - that atheists like Dawkins or Hitchens or the other atheist horsemen are rude, shrill, belittling, dickish, abrasive, and generally offensive. Fine, they're awful. Who's good? If they're negative examples, who in present or past history can serve as a positive example of what to do ( Read more... )

atheism, religion

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ext_216948 May 27 2010, 22:40:51 UTC
I admit that I am certainly not communicating that well here -- however, I'm a blog commenter with little free time. I don't have time to find quotes, though I can bear witness to having been alienated by blog posts and video pieces he's produced in the past. (I checked some old IM conversations and emails in which I had sent links of such pieces to friends, but that was a few years ago and the links are dead now.) However, I can point to the most basic ways he comports himself -- calling a book "The God Delusion", subtitling your website "A Clear Thinking Oasis", calling a documentary about religion "The Root of All Evil" -- all of these are moves that are designed to shock and provoke, but which simultaneously put anyone disagreeing on the defensive before the discussion even begins. It's a small thing, but it's also dickish -- not quite as bad as "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)", but part of the same family. Like I said, I've observed the same tendency writ larger in Dawkins' blog posts, articles, and videos, but don't have time to find links (a failing I certainly take responsibility for.)

I honestly do think Dawkins does a lot of good, and I think your Carrot Top analogy is right on -- a lot of people criticize him as a symbol of something they don't like, rather than paying attention to what he's actually doing. Though by the same token, every time I see what Carrot Top's up to, I say, "Oh yeah -- he's still doing the same old Carrot Top shit", thus giving me a reason to tune him out again.

As for which comedian he is -- I think he's Andrew Dice Clay, but doing good material. He's shocking and provocative, gets a lot of attention and has a lot of fans. But there are a lot of us who are turned off by the same style that turns on those seeking red meat.

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tongodeon May 28 2010, 00:21:10 UTC
However, I can point to the most basic ways he comports himself -- calling a book "The God Delusion", subtitling your website "A Clear Thinking Oasis", calling a documentary about religion "The Root of All Evil"

Dawkins actually agrees with you about "The Root Of All Evil". It was produced by Channel Four, which has a reputation for being sensational, and its producers insisted on giving the show that name, against Dawkins' protests. (See the sourced note on Wikipedia.) Dawkins himself has said publicly, numerous times, including in his own books, that he thought at the time and continues to think now that the title was a mistake. Not a big enough mistake to walk away from the project, which was still a very good project if you've had a chance to see it, but if he'd had his druthers it wouldn't have had that name. In the forward of "God Delusion" he says:

"In January 2006 I presented a two-part television documentary on British television (Channel Four) called Root of All Evil? From the start, I didn't like the title. Religion is not the root of all evil, for no one thing is the root of all anything."

As for the title of "The God Delusion" itself, he explains that choice of words in page 5 of the forward:

The Penguin English Dictionary defines a delusion as 'a false belief or impression'. The dictionary supplied with Microsoft Word defines a delusion as 'a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence'.

For better or for worse he's picked exactly the proper word to encapsulate his thesis. Religious people are deluded. Mistaken. They credulously believe a falsity. They aren't stupid, they're not gullible, they're not weak. They're mistaken, usually by the coincidence of the culture they happen to have been born into. How do you communicate this without being offensive? It's the clearest, simplest way to unambiguously present this idea - in contrast to religious speech which can be indirect, vague, metaphorical, and equivocal. Religious people twist Dawkins' words to take him out of context. Dawkins "comports himself" as plainly, directly, and unambiguously as possible - by necessity - to avoid giving them this chance.

Dawkins' "Clear Thinking Oasis" is in contrast to this. The stuff he believes has been skeptically reviewed and has all appearances of being actually true. His beliefs are supported by confirmatory evidence, and they're tentative and subject to change based on new evidence. He's thinking clearly and expressing himself clearly. I understand that some people find this offensive, but I don't understand why. If he's a bad performer doing good material I'd love to have an example of someone who takes his material and does it well. "Fine, they're awful. Who's good?" What's a better way to communicate this?

(This is important to me partly because there's a lot of Dawkins' approach in me, and a lot of people react to what I say the same way. If I can figure out what Dawkins should be doing I can start doing things that way even if he doesn't.)

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