Armistice, Veterans, Remembrance, and Armed Forces Days

Nov 13, 2009 11:35

On November 11 Americans celebrate Veterans Day to honor the military veterans who fought in the service of our country. It wasn't always this way. King George V first proclaimed Armistice Day on November 7 1919 to celebrate the 1918 armistice agreement with Germany which ended Eastern Front conflict in World War 1. Woodrow Wilson proclaimed an ( Read more... )

veterans day, holiday, war

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Comments 8

waider November 14 2009, 08:15:51 UTC
That Big Picture collection is pretty awesome. A pity that some commentators had to drag politics, chest-beating nationalism, and god knows what other misguided crap into the comments.

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ponsdorf November 15 2009, 17:28:35 UTC
I wonder if Americans would be inclined to celebrate a more European holiday if Americans had experienced the civilian casualties that Europeans experienced from two world wars taking place literally in their front yards.

Good point, and yet oddly contradictory on it's face. Americans did NOT experience either war as did those living in the countries where they were fought; so why would we acknowledge a veteran's service the same?

Sounds a like bit of an 'apples and oranges' comparison.

It would also be nice if we came around to their way of doing things as well. Why?

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tongodeon November 16 2009, 07:08:35 UTC
Americans did NOT experience either war as did those living in the countries where they were fought; so why would we acknowledge a veteran's service the same?

You have accurately rephrased what I stated in my post. The American civilian celebrates war differently in part because they experienced it differently.

It would also be nice if we came around to their way of doing things as well. Why?

I doubt my ability to explain the benefit of celebrating the end of armed hostilities if you do not intuitively understand it already.

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ponsdorf November 16 2009, 12:42:16 UTC
Hmmm, I rephrased what you said only up to a point. You essentially stated that even though the experiences were different it would nice to celebrate them the same way. I asked why?

And I'm not so sure that intuition is in play here? I might be mistaken though; since I have always felt there was something flawed in the notion that something could be 'the same, but different' so I'd have to make quite an intuitive leap in this case.

Further (if I might wander a bit), celebrating the end of armed hostilities without context is not always a beneficial thing.

Oh well, I was simply trying understand the point you were making and I don't. Europeans essentially started both wars, primary elements of both wars were largely fought in Europe. That they would view the end of both a certain way is clearly probable. I'm just not so sure it's a superior view.

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tongodeon November 16 2009, 18:19:07 UTC
You essentially stated that even though the experiences were different it would nice to celebrate them the same way. I asked why?

Maybe you could think of it like Seat Belt Day. Someone who has had the good fortune of never being in a car accident might not appreciate seat belts as much as someone who has, but a day noting the benefits and importance of seat belts is still worthwhile even for those people due to the many ancillary benefits of seat belts.

celebrating the end of armed hostilities without context is not always a beneficial thing.

Armistice Day was proclaimed in the context of the November 7 1919 armistice which ended World War One. Germans do not typically celebrate Armistice Day for this reason, except that this year was the first year that they did, so even the Germans are coming around.

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nov 11, 1918 closed the western front drieuxster November 16 2009, 02:27:06 UTC
The eastern front was first solved with the Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk. Arguments can be constructed that it did not actually end until after the allied forces would allow the Russian Civil War to end on it's own terms, and would evacuate from Vladivostok after the Kolchack regime collapsed.

So if Americans are celebrating Nov 11th, does that mean that they are stabbing the trooops who were still fighting the commies in russia into the 20's? Not to mention the american in poland, but that way complicates other parts of the discussions about which was the peace, and which was the interlude, and....

You have skipped over Memorial Day, which was suppose to have been about helping americans cope with the forgetting of those who died defending their way of life....

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loic November 16 2009, 03:25:20 UTC
1) Yeah, I love Remembrance day because of the poppy symbolism. It's commemorating sacrifice and the horror of war. The core of the event is a minute of silence and reflection. I think we can all use more minutes of silence and reflection ( ... )

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ikkyu2 November 17 2009, 07:19:09 UTC
I am not following your argument. Veterans' Day is for honoring the service done by living veterans of American wars; typically events are planned around veterans who are actually alive, for their benefit, and it is a popular day for the practice of taking a veteran out for dinner.

We have Memorial Day, a separate day, to honor those who died in service (popularly and erroneously called "the greatest sacrifice.")

There is no special day set aside to honor American military asskicking in general - that is not, for instance, the purpose of Flag Day - and I am not aware that V-E and V-J Days are celebrated by more than a handful of folks. July 4th is remembered as a day early in the inauguration of a war, not as that war's successful conclusion; and so is December 7th, a day which is not celebrated, but rather lives in infamy as predicted by FDR.

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