Responding with feminism
Before I start this entry, I'd like to clear up what feminism actually means. Because I'm pretty sure there is a fair amount of people here that may not know exactly what the feminist movement is about, or have gotten a completely different image of what it is until now. This definition that I came up with is also a response to a friend when he said that feminism is about women complaining that they want to be like men and want to dominate them. He couldn't have been more wrong. My response:
"It's ok for women and men to be different. But the fact that women are systematically oppressed BECAUSE they are women is the problem. And it happens everywhere and in almost all aspects of most cultures in this world. Non-whites and non-heterosexuals are also oppressed because they are members of those groups.
Not only do feminists recognize this and fight ways to resist it while bringing awareness and fight for change, we also wish for all men to stop needlessly suffering from gender norms, so we fight for them too. In fact, we tend to question what gender even is all together, and reject the assumption that there are 2 dimorphic sexes. Oh and we DON'T HATE MEN!!!! We're in it to save everyone :D
Anyways, onto the topic of today's post.
A few days ago a friend and I began a discussion on sexist and misogynistic jokes. For those who don't know what misogyny is it is simply the hatred of women. For a more in depth definition, it can be said that misogyny, "is a central part of sexist prejudice and ideology and, as such, is an important basis for the oppression of females in male-dominated societies. Misogyny is manifested in many different ways, from jokes to pornography to violence to the self-contempt women may be taught to feel for their own bodies"(Johnson).
Michael Flood also defines misogyny as the hatred of women and adds, "though most common in men, misogyny also exists in and is practiced by women against other women or even themselves. Misogyny functions as an ideology or belief system that has accompanied patriarchal, or male-dominated societies for thousands of years and continues to place women in subordinate positions with limited access to power and decision making. [...] Aristotle contended that women exist as natural deformities or imperfect males [...] Ever since, women in Western cultures have internalised their role as societal scapegoats, influenced in the twenty-first century by multimedia objectification of women with its culturally sanctioned self-loathing and fixations on plastic surgery, anorexia and bulimia."
As you see in the last sentence of the quote, it mentions multimedia objectification of women. It is at this point of the conversation with my friend that I post this video to provide a more visual example of how objectification of women happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD0Faha2gow&feature=player_embedded
I recommend you watch her other videos as well, they're respectful while being smart and challenging the status-quo.
Anyways, after showing my friend this video he apparently was very, very offended, and left me with this response:
"Now, I haven't seen all of her videos, but this must have been written for a school assignment, because just as you'd expect from a schoolchild, she has begun her investigations for this video with a biased point of view, and simply leaves out anything which does not support this bias. There are a plethora of advertisements that would, by her standards, display retro-sexism towards both genders, retro-ageism, retro-racism. You know, just about everybody is made fun of in advertisements these days. If you want to rant on about equality, there is the proof. Everyone is made fun of equally, in equal measure.
But you know what's uber ironic about this video? How she complains about how 'objectified' women have become, hinting at some sort of unnecessary level of sexuality in advertisements, yet she's fully primped herself up for this. She's hot. And she's wearing red lipstick. Who is she trying to look good for? Surely complaining about how men objectify her and then cater to the desires of men is counter-productive, not to mention hypocritical and the aforementioned ironic?
She does bring up good points, albeit in a patronising and self-righteous way. But, at the end of the day - and let's not be hasty, women still have a lot to fight for - but when the day came that a woman could potentially become the most powerful person on the planet, but lost out to black man, equality in America has come LONG way!!"
So, here is the response I just sent him as a message, as it is way too long for a comment on FB.
I always expect men (and women!) to react negatively to these sorts of issues because they certainly challenge the status-quo. If you disagree with me, fine. I'd like to point out, however, that making fun of someone, which you say everyone is made fun of equally (I'm not sure how you could prove that) is different than portraying a certain gender, race, or a specific group of people in a certain way, most likely a negative one, if they are not a white, straight male. That's not to say that there aren't advertisements in which a white, assumedly straight male is not the butt of some joke, but after the advertisement is over that image of him can be reverted back to what he is: a normal, respected human being. The image of the blonde, ditzy, stupid girl can't.
I'd now like to address the second paragraph of your response to this video. You mention that she's hot, wears red lipstick, and is "fully primped" for the video she was shooting. You then mention that she is automatically doing this for a man, therefore she shouldn't complain about the objectification of women. Correct me if I'm wrong:
A woman(who you ironically assume is heterosexual) looks hot/wears red lipstick = should/deserve/asks for objectification.
Now tell me if this isn't ironic.
In your defense, I do expect these sorts of responses when speaking to men (and women) about this, but that way of thinking is why rape culture exists.
What is rape culture?
It is a glorified way of thinking where: Women dress "provocatively"/wear lipstick/look hot + alcohol + flirting/friendliness = ok to RAPE HER AND THEN BLAME HER for it because of the first part of the equation. And because this message is pumped into our heads through movies, advertisements, and just about every media outlet, it is no wonder why so many people think this way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/09assault.html
Please, read this article by The New York Times, published a few weeks ago. I'd like for you to notice how subtly they place blame on the 11 YEAR OLD GIRL WHO WAS GANG RAPED. Yes, no one wishes this to happen to any woman, much less an 11 year old girl, but why we still insist blaming rape victims for such a horrifying situation is beyond me.
Now, what I just spoke about above is obviously the extreme and unfortunate effect of the kind of thinking where women are asking to be treated like objects when they dress or act a certain way. But
this can also apply to street harassment and catcalling that countless women go through. Just two weeks ago, I was in Daytona to watch the Daytona 500 and as I was walking towards the speedway along with hundreds of people one guy who was passing by on a golf-cart felt the need to slap my ass and tell me how fine it was. The hem of my shorts barely reached above my knees. Did I deserve that? I certainly don't think so.
Of course, even though I haven't seen you in almost a decade I am pretty confident in saying that you are a nice guy and that you would NEVER wish rape/harassment for any girl(or guy for that matter!) much less do it yourself, but I really ask you to think about how that type of thinking (about women looking hot = asking for objectification) is detrimental. And not only to women, but to men too. It makes men look like sex-crazed animals, that they can only control themselves as long as women are covered "modestly". That the urge to rape/harass/treat women like shit can only be contained by WOMEN dressing/acting/wearing makeup/hair(basically, ALWAYS KEEPING AN EYE OUT for these creeps) a certain way? Come on, really? As a man, I'd be really fucking offended I am reduced to such an animal.
About your last paragraph, I'm not sure what your argument was. I think you were trying to vent some feelings about President Barak Obama or the status of black people over women....or the fact that Anita Sarkeesian seemed like a "bitch" in the video. She may be a "bitch" but she supports and extrapolates her arguments well.
Like Anita says in her video, it is PERFECTLY OK to use sexist/racists ideas for irony; but if all you're doing is stating them and not actually challenging/trying to change them, you're just saying sexist/racist things. Bitch Magazine's purpose is to challenge those sexist/racists message shown in the mainstream media and pop culture with feminists responses. That's why the title of the magazine doesn't fall under retro-sexism.
After reading all this, I can't tell if you'll be mad or offended. I was surprised at how offended you were by this video and my comments, and for that, I am truly sorry. I hope you understand that I still consider you a friend(and a pretty cool one at that ^_^). I'd also like to say that just because I'm having a discussion with you about sexism/racism/objectification of women does not mean that I am not guitly having ever said sexist/racist things. It also doesn't mean that I dress "butch" in order to prove a point. I wear make-up (just now getting into it but loving it o>_
It's because of feminism that I finally CAN FINALLY start thinking and speaking for myself. These aren't newfound beliefs, however, I just decided to use March 17 to announce I was a feminist because it was Feminist Coming Out Day :D
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and engage me in these sorts of debates, it really does help understand things from both sides :)
Have a wonderful day,
Maru <3
I have to admit, when I was first writing the response I was crying, because as a feminist (or someone that just wants women to be looked at equal to men!!!! jeez!!!!) it feels like the whole world is against you (in male-dominated societies it is), and when my friends fall into that category it's just really hard to not take it personally. But instead of responding with anger, which is what he did, I responded with kindness, while still giving him the facts. And I feel so much better because of that. I hope he takes the time to read and think about my message and doesn't shoot off another emotional response, but hey, we'll see ;)
If you'd like to read more about current events and how it relates to feminism I highly recommend taking a look at feministing.com . Tons of articles on insightful views on current events, in the US and around the world, through a feminist perspective. Then please check out http://www.feministfrequency.com for more videos on feminism and pop culture!
Hope everyone is having a good international Anti Street Harassment Day!!!!!
"It's ok for women and men to be different. But the fact that women are systematically oppressed BECAUSE they are women is the problem. And it happens everywhere and in almost all aspects of most cultures in this world. Non-whites and non-heterosexuals are also oppressed because they are members of those groups.
Not only do feminists recognize this and fight ways to resist it while bringing awareness and fight for change, we also wish for all men to stop needlessly suffering from gender norms, so we fight for them too. In fact, we tend to question what gender even is all together, and reject the assumption that there are 2 dimorphic sexes. Oh and we DON'T HATE MEN!!!! We're in it to save everyone :D
Anyways, onto the topic of today's post.
A few days ago a friend and I began a discussion on sexist and misogynistic jokes. For those who don't know what misogyny is it is simply the hatred of women. For a more in depth definition, it can be said that misogyny, "is a central part of sexist prejudice and ideology and, as such, is an important basis for the oppression of females in male-dominated societies. Misogyny is manifested in many different ways, from jokes to pornography to violence to the self-contempt women may be taught to feel for their own bodies"(Johnson).
Michael Flood also defines misogyny as the hatred of women and adds, "though most common in men, misogyny also exists in and is practiced by women against other women or even themselves. Misogyny functions as an ideology or belief system that has accompanied patriarchal, or male-dominated societies for thousands of years and continues to place women in subordinate positions with limited access to power and decision making. [...] Aristotle contended that women exist as natural deformities or imperfect males [...] Ever since, women in Western cultures have internalised their role as societal scapegoats, influenced in the twenty-first century by multimedia objectification of women with its culturally sanctioned self-loathing and fixations on plastic surgery, anorexia and bulimia."
As you see in the last sentence of the quote, it mentions multimedia objectification of women. It is at this point of the conversation with my friend that I post this video to provide a more visual example of how objectification of women happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD0Faha2gow&feature=player_embedded
I recommend you watch her other videos as well, they're respectful while being smart and challenging the status-quo.
Anyways, after showing my friend this video he apparently was very, very offended, and left me with this response:
"Now, I haven't seen all of her videos, but this must have been written for a school assignment, because just as you'd expect from a schoolchild, she has begun her investigations for this video with a biased point of view, and simply leaves out anything which does not support this bias. There are a plethora of advertisements that would, by her standards, display retro-sexism towards both genders, retro-ageism, retro-racism. You know, just about everybody is made fun of in advertisements these days. If you want to rant on about equality, there is the proof. Everyone is made fun of equally, in equal measure.
But you know what's uber ironic about this video? How she complains about how 'objectified' women have become, hinting at some sort of unnecessary level of sexuality in advertisements, yet she's fully primped herself up for this. She's hot. And she's wearing red lipstick. Who is she trying to look good for? Surely complaining about how men objectify her and then cater to the desires of men is counter-productive, not to mention hypocritical and the aforementioned ironic?
She does bring up good points, albeit in a patronising and self-righteous way. But, at the end of the day - and let's not be hasty, women still have a lot to fight for - but when the day came that a woman could potentially become the most powerful person on the planet, but lost out to black man, equality in America has come LONG way!!"
So, here is the response I just sent him as a message, as it is way too long for a comment on FB.
I always expect men (and women!) to react negatively to these sorts of issues because they certainly challenge the status-quo. If you disagree with me, fine. I'd like to point out, however, that making fun of someone, which you say everyone is made fun of equally (I'm not sure how you could prove that) is different than portraying a certain gender, race, or a specific group of people in a certain way, most likely a negative one, if they are not a white, straight male. That's not to say that there aren't advertisements in which a white, assumedly straight male is not the butt of some joke, but after the advertisement is over that image of him can be reverted back to what he is: a normal, respected human being. The image of the blonde, ditzy, stupid girl can't.
I'd now like to address the second paragraph of your response to this video. You mention that she's hot, wears red lipstick, and is "fully primped" for the video she was shooting. You then mention that she is automatically doing this for a man, therefore she shouldn't complain about the objectification of women. Correct me if I'm wrong:
A woman(who you ironically assume is heterosexual) looks hot/wears red lipstick = should/deserve/asks for objectification.
Now tell me if this isn't ironic.
In your defense, I do expect these sorts of responses when speaking to men (and women) about this, but that way of thinking is why rape culture exists.
What is rape culture?
It is a glorified way of thinking where: Women dress "provocatively"/wear lipstick/look hot + alcohol + flirting/friendliness = ok to RAPE HER AND THEN BLAME HER for it because of the first part of the equation. And because this message is pumped into our heads through movies, advertisements, and just about every media outlet, it is no wonder why so many people think this way.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/09assault.html
Please, read this article by The New York Times, published a few weeks ago. I'd like for you to notice how subtly they place blame on the 11 YEAR OLD GIRL WHO WAS GANG RAPED. Yes, no one wishes this to happen to any woman, much less an 11 year old girl, but why we still insist blaming rape victims for such a horrifying situation is beyond me.
Now, what I just spoke about above is obviously the extreme and unfortunate effect of the kind of thinking where women are asking to be treated like objects when they dress or act a certain way. But
this can also apply to street harassment and catcalling that countless women go through. Just two weeks ago, I was in Daytona to watch the Daytona 500 and as I was walking towards the speedway along with hundreds of people one guy who was passing by on a golf-cart felt the need to slap my ass and tell me how fine it was. The hem of my shorts barely reached above my knees. Did I deserve that? I certainly don't think so.
Of course, even though I haven't seen you in almost a decade I am pretty confident in saying that you are a nice guy and that you would NEVER wish rape/harassment for any girl(or guy for that matter!) much less do it yourself, but I really ask you to think about how that type of thinking (about women looking hot = asking for objectification) is detrimental. And not only to women, but to men too. It makes men look like sex-crazed animals, that they can only control themselves as long as women are covered "modestly". That the urge to rape/harass/treat women like shit can only be contained by WOMEN dressing/acting/wearing makeup/hair(basically, ALWAYS KEEPING AN EYE OUT for these creeps) a certain way? Come on, really? As a man, I'd be really fucking offended I am reduced to such an animal.
About your last paragraph, I'm not sure what your argument was. I think you were trying to vent some feelings about President Barak Obama or the status of black people over women....or the fact that Anita Sarkeesian seemed like a "bitch" in the video. She may be a "bitch" but she supports and extrapolates her arguments well.
Like Anita says in her video, it is PERFECTLY OK to use sexist/racists ideas for irony; but if all you're doing is stating them and not actually challenging/trying to change them, you're just saying sexist/racist things. Bitch Magazine's purpose is to challenge those sexist/racists message shown in the mainstream media and pop culture with feminists responses. That's why the title of the magazine doesn't fall under retro-sexism.
After reading all this, I can't tell if you'll be mad or offended. I was surprised at how offended you were by this video and my comments, and for that, I am truly sorry. I hope you understand that I still consider you a friend(and a pretty cool one at that ^_^). I'd also like to say that just because I'm having a discussion with you about sexism/racism/objectification of women does not mean that I am not guitly having ever said sexist/racist things. It also doesn't mean that I dress "butch" in order to prove a point. I wear make-up (just now getting into it but loving it o>_
It's because of feminism that I finally CAN FINALLY start thinking and speaking for myself. These aren't newfound beliefs, however, I just decided to use March 17 to announce I was a feminist because it was Feminist Coming Out Day :D
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and engage me in these sorts of debates, it really does help understand things from both sides :)
Have a wonderful day,
Maru <3
I have to admit, when I was first writing the response I was crying, because as a feminist (or someone that just wants women to be looked at equal to men!!!! jeez!!!!) it feels like the whole world is against you (in male-dominated societies it is), and when my friends fall into that category it's just really hard to not take it personally. But instead of responding with anger, which is what he did, I responded with kindness, while still giving him the facts. And I feel so much better because of that. I hope he takes the time to read and think about my message and doesn't shoot off another emotional response, but hey, we'll see ;)
If you'd like to read more about current events and how it relates to feminism I highly recommend taking a look at feministing.com . Tons of articles on insightful views on current events, in the US and around the world, through a feminist perspective. Then please check out http://www.feministfrequency.com for more videos on feminism and pop culture!
Hope everyone is having a good international Anti Street Harassment Day!!!!!