Random Unfinished Thoughts From A Podcast
So while I was working today, I listened to a podcast of a recent church service (well most of it) at Mars Hill. For those of you who aren't familiar with Mars Hill, here's a brief summarizing glimpse. The church's website is at www.marshill.org, there's also wikipedia entries on Mars Hill and Rob Bell. If you've been in the religion section of borders recently, you'll notice that Rob Bell has written two books; Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith and Sex God: Exploring the Endless Connections Between Sexuality And Spirituality . He's got an M.Div from Fuller, and then self-founded Mars Hill. I've been forcing myself to keep calling it (Mars Hill) a church, and I think this prejudice of mine is unfairly deserved. While their sacramental theology is disagreeable to me, to say the least, they are very biblically focussed, and until I learn otherwise (see upcoming greek and hebrew courses) i'm taking their exegetical conclusions at face value. Apparently they aren't big fans of the primary credal statements; apostles', nicene, and athanasian, at least in their 'usual forms'. I guess this probably in part to their self-understanding as a 'tribe' and this continuing membership drive they like to have. Therefore they have this statement of theology on their website listed above ... it's long, not something you'd all recite midservice, that's fer sure.
We believe God inspired the authors of Scripture by his Spirit to speak to all generations of believers, including us, today. God calls us to immerse ourselves in this authoritative narrative individually and communally to faithfully interpret and live out that story today as we are led by the Spirit of God.
In the beginning God created all things good. He was and always will be in a communal relationship with himself - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God created us to be relational as well and marked us with an identity as his image bearers and with a missional calling to serve, care for, and cultivate the earth. God created humans in his image to live in fellowship with him, one another, our inner self, and creation. We recognize that through human sin, darkness and evil entered the story and are a part of the world, fracturing our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation.
We believe God did not abandon his creation to destruction and decay; rather he promised to restore this broken world. As part of this purpose, God chose a people, Abraham and his descendants, to represent him in the world. God promised to bless them as a nation so that through them all nations would be blessed. In time they became enslaved in Egypt and cried out to God because of their oppression. God heard their cry, and he liberated them from their oppressor and brought them to Sinai where he gave them an identity and a mission as his treasured possession, a Kingdom of priests, a holy people. Throughout the story of Israel, God refuses to give up on his people despite their frequent acts of unfaithfulness to him.
God brought his people into the Promised Land. Their state of blessing from God was intimately bound to their calling to embody the living God to other nations. They made movement toward this missional calling, yet they disobeyed and allowed foreign gods into the land, overlooked the poor, and mistreated the foreigner. The prophetic voices that emerge from the Scriptures held the calling of Israel to the mirror of how they treated the oppressed and marginalized. Through the prophets, God’s heart for the poor was made known, and we believe that God cares deeply for the marginalized and oppressed among us today.
In Israel's disobedience, they became indifferent and in turn irrelevant to the purposes to which God had called them. For a time, they were sent into exile; yet a hopeful remnant was always looking ahead with longing and hope to a renewed reign of God, where peace and justice would prevail.
We believe these longings found their fulfillment in Jesus the Messiah, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, mysteriously God in the flesh. Jesus came to preach good news to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted and to set captives free, proclaiming a new arrival of the Kingdom of God, bringing about a New Exodus, and restoring our fractured world. He and his message were rejected by many as he confronted the oppressive nature of the religious elite and the empire of Rome. Yet his path of suffering, death, burial, and resurrection has brought hope to all creation. Jesus is our only hope for bringing reconciliation between God and humans. Through Jesus we have been forgiven and reconciled to God. God is now reconciling us to each other, ourselves, and creation.
For all who trust Jesus, the Spirit of God affirms as children of God, empowers with gifts, convicts, guides, comforts, counsels, and leads into truth through a communal life of worship and a missional expression of our faith. The church is a global and local expression of living out the way of Jesus through love, sacrifice, and healing as we embody the resurrected Christ, who lives in and through us, to a broken and hurting world.
We believe the day is coming when Jesus will return and judge the world, bringing an end to injustice and restoring all things to God's original intent. He will reclaim this world and rule forever. The earth's groaning will cease, and God will dwell with us here in a restored creation. On that day we will beat swords into tools for cultivating the earth, the wolf will lie down with the lamb, there will be no more death, and God will wipe away all our tears. Our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation will be whole. All will flourish as God intends. This is what we long for. This is what we hope for. And we have given our lives to living out that future reality now.
Mars Hill, despite its long-winded credal statement that may or may not encompass the theological depth and content of the 'major three creeds' (there's a term for them, i just forgot it), does tend to have a large emphasis on Liberation Theology. So, insofar as that is considered, I think Mars Hill is rather intriguing. Admittedly, the podcast I listened to at work ended up on a good note, but for much of the podcast I was like .... hey this is divine mandate theology in disguise.
Now the podcast in question is: Christos Victor - Dr. Greg Boyd (click link for download)
The following comments came up for me;
- during this particular sunday gathering they were celebrating Communion (no they don't call it holy, and my critiques get worse from there)
- rob bell's communion theology is screwwwwy
- it's memorialist, with a large tendency toward glory driven (most of the words are what we do, not what god has done, is doing, will do)
- he says stuff on the 'life that we're given in him (Christ)' but never how one is given that life
- supposedly, and this critique has yet to be substantiated (there's no video i can find), the element of communion are available around the cross and are to be taken not served. I can't stress the degree to which this angers me.
- I need to do a lot of thinking upon the idea of Communion as metaphor (good thing i'm in seminary for that ;0))
- the congregation/tribe claps after message/sermon/teaching ugh.
Funny note:
Around 24 minutes and 7 seconds into this podcast ...
"... you listen to uh Mozart, Beethoven, Debussy, or The Smashing Pumpkins or whoever you like to listen to and maybe there you see the glory of God, I dunno but there's a lot of beauty all around that glories God ..."
lollercoaster.
We believe God inspired the authors of Scripture by his Spirit to speak to all generations of believers, including us, today. God calls us to immerse ourselves in this authoritative narrative individually and communally to faithfully interpret and live out that story today as we are led by the Spirit of God.
In the beginning God created all things good. He was and always will be in a communal relationship with himself - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God created us to be relational as well and marked us with an identity as his image bearers and with a missional calling to serve, care for, and cultivate the earth. God created humans in his image to live in fellowship with him, one another, our inner self, and creation. We recognize that through human sin, darkness and evil entered the story and are a part of the world, fracturing our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation.
We believe God did not abandon his creation to destruction and decay; rather he promised to restore this broken world. As part of this purpose, God chose a people, Abraham and his descendants, to represent him in the world. God promised to bless them as a nation so that through them all nations would be blessed. In time they became enslaved in Egypt and cried out to God because of their oppression. God heard their cry, and he liberated them from their oppressor and brought them to Sinai where he gave them an identity and a mission as his treasured possession, a Kingdom of priests, a holy people. Throughout the story of Israel, God refuses to give up on his people despite their frequent acts of unfaithfulness to him.
God brought his people into the Promised Land. Their state of blessing from God was intimately bound to their calling to embody the living God to other nations. They made movement toward this missional calling, yet they disobeyed and allowed foreign gods into the land, overlooked the poor, and mistreated the foreigner. The prophetic voices that emerge from the Scriptures held the calling of Israel to the mirror of how they treated the oppressed and marginalized. Through the prophets, God’s heart for the poor was made known, and we believe that God cares deeply for the marginalized and oppressed among us today.
In Israel's disobedience, they became indifferent and in turn irrelevant to the purposes to which God had called them. For a time, they were sent into exile; yet a hopeful remnant was always looking ahead with longing and hope to a renewed reign of God, where peace and justice would prevail.
We believe these longings found their fulfillment in Jesus the Messiah, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin, mysteriously God in the flesh. Jesus came to preach good news to the poor, to bind up the brokenhearted and to set captives free, proclaiming a new arrival of the Kingdom of God, bringing about a New Exodus, and restoring our fractured world. He and his message were rejected by many as he confronted the oppressive nature of the religious elite and the empire of Rome. Yet his path of suffering, death, burial, and resurrection has brought hope to all creation. Jesus is our only hope for bringing reconciliation between God and humans. Through Jesus we have been forgiven and reconciled to God. God is now reconciling us to each other, ourselves, and creation.
For all who trust Jesus, the Spirit of God affirms as children of God, empowers with gifts, convicts, guides, comforts, counsels, and leads into truth through a communal life of worship and a missional expression of our faith. The church is a global and local expression of living out the way of Jesus through love, sacrifice, and healing as we embody the resurrected Christ, who lives in and through us, to a broken and hurting world.
We believe the day is coming when Jesus will return and judge the world, bringing an end to injustice and restoring all things to God's original intent. He will reclaim this world and rule forever. The earth's groaning will cease, and God will dwell with us here in a restored creation. On that day we will beat swords into tools for cultivating the earth, the wolf will lie down with the lamb, there will be no more death, and God will wipe away all our tears. Our relationships with God, others, ourselves, and creation will be whole. All will flourish as God intends. This is what we long for. This is what we hope for. And we have given our lives to living out that future reality now.
Mars Hill, despite its long-winded credal statement that may or may not encompass the theological depth and content of the 'major three creeds' (there's a term for them, i just forgot it), does tend to have a large emphasis on Liberation Theology. So, insofar as that is considered, I think Mars Hill is rather intriguing. Admittedly, the podcast I listened to at work ended up on a good note, but for much of the podcast I was like .... hey this is divine mandate theology in disguise.
Now the podcast in question is: Christos Victor - Dr. Greg Boyd (click link for download)
The following comments came up for me;
- during this particular sunday gathering they were celebrating Communion (no they don't call it holy, and my critiques get worse from there)
- rob bell's communion theology is screwwwwy
- it's memorialist, with a large tendency toward glory driven (most of the words are what we do, not what god has done, is doing, will do)
- he says stuff on the 'life that we're given in him (Christ)' but never how one is given that life
- supposedly, and this critique has yet to be substantiated (there's no video i can find), the element of communion are available around the cross and are to be taken not served. I can't stress the degree to which this angers me.
- I need to do a lot of thinking upon the idea of Communion as metaphor (good thing i'm in seminary for that ;0))
- the congregation/tribe claps after message/sermon/teaching ugh.
Funny note:
Around 24 minutes and 7 seconds into this podcast ...
"... you listen to uh Mozart, Beethoven, Debussy, or The Smashing Pumpkins or whoever you like to listen to and maybe there you see the glory of God, I dunno but there's a lot of beauty all around that glories God ..."
lollercoaster.