Because, apparently, there can't be too much ranting about writing

[blade_girl]

Let me begin by acknowledging that the membership of this community may well be the wrong people to be ranting at on this issue. It's likely that those of you who joined or watch this comm have a full command of the language (in this case, English) and are cognizant of the proper and effective way to express your ideas in prose.

Comments

[blade_girl]

Ah, it's always a danger to generalize, isn't it?

*slaps own hand*

When I rant about unbetaed fic, I'm envisioning something different from how you describe your fic at their posting times. Yours sounds as though it's solid writing with a few typos and grammatical brain-farts. I'm talking literary train wrecks. I don't object to posting without a beta if your story isn't held together with masking tape and ego, and especially not if you actually heed the comments of those who point out your errors and correct them right away.

Most of the fic I'm thinking of needs more than a few pointers; it needed to have been sent to someone who actually knows how to spell and how to construct sentences properly and so forth prior to posting so that it could be whipped into a presentable form before innocent readers were subjected to it.

Anyway, as to plot betas, a resounding OMG YES! I can't even imagine why anyone would resist bouncing their plot ideas off another person whose judgment they trust. There is nothing as helpful as that to a writer, and it can really prevent you from embarrassing yourself.

Regarding the "guiding the future" thing, I should clarify that all I'm referring to is providing writers with a knowledge of basic fiction-writing standards; ie., you proof-read your work, you get someone else to check it for errors, you learn to spell and use words properly or find a beta who can, etc. I'm not worried about content in the slightest. There will always be writers who lack originality or any special skill in characterization or plotting. They have as much right to be heard as anyone. I just feel that we all - talented or not - have an obligation to present our work in a form that isn't painful or insulting to those we are asking to spend time and attention reading it.

[luchia13]

Ahhh, no problem. I figured as much, but felt like I should defend at least the few of us who do it just because of a lack of time and having vicious, sadistic bastards for professors.

Also, something that really concerns me is the read-through betas that aren't...um. Okay, no polite way to phrase this, that are REALLY BAD BETAS. But plot betas are just the most fantasmagorical thing EVER TO WALK THE INTERNET. It takes someone you can trust, but man, when you find some good ones, you're in heaven.

Ahhhhhhhh, gotcha. But lacking originality always makes me so, so sad. I mean, sure, I turn people into ninjas for the hell of it, but when a fic seriously makes you think about things...oh boy do I love that.

[amedia]

*makes mental note to read your ninja fic, because, dude, well-researched ninjas!*

Actually I wanted to bring up a minor disagreement about the beta-ing advice too.

enlist the advice of a beta. If possible, choose someone who writes better than you.

I usually do have my stories beta'd and I have an awesome beta who is very perceptive about character, painfully good at spotting plot holes, and if possible a bigger grammar nazi than I am,* with, furthermore, a sense of style in addition to correctness. (Who would probably be banging his head against a wall over that sentence.) And who doesn't write fic at all.

So I wouldn't say that a beta necessarily has to be a writer. If I didn't already have a beta, though, and if I were looking for a beta in a new fandom, I might very well ask someone whose writing I admire, but I might be even more likely to go to that person and ask who her beta is and whether the beta has time for a new client.

*I would mention that this person is also a former freshman composition teacher, but after seeing what some comp teachers teach, I have to admit that's not necessarily a recommendation. Um, I probably shouldn't have said that. Pay no attention to the cranky person behind the curtain.

[verilyverity]

I guess it's a syllological hole. "All men are not Aristotle," and such. A great beta doesn't have to be a good writer, but a beta who is a good writer is closer to a sure thing when you first take the plunge.

[luchia13]

They are so researched it's stupid. But it's slash and Glitch/Ambrose/Sessha/Joat/Spiral/Tomo/Sweetheart is SERIOUSLY messed in the head, so BE FOREWARNED. Since all those names? Yeah. Different facets/personas. *always has to give these warning*

My biggest problem is that the person whose fanfic writing I admire most doesn't even know what Tin Man is, and know damn well she doesn't use a beta. Then again, I always go for ingenuity and plot and not always the actual quality of writing (flow, sentence structure, etc.), so asking me whose writing I admire most isn't always the best question. Honestly I need to ask someone ELSE who to ask.

[blade_girl]

See, this is why discussions are swirling pools of awesomeness, and I say that as someone who NEVER uses the word "awesome" in its contemporary slang capacity. Your comment has pointed out yet another generalization I've made that I didn't really mean to make.

You're absolutely right - a great beta doesn't necessarily have to be a writer. It's entirely possible for someone to spot typos, incorrect grammar and misspellings, and even plot holes and poor characterization without ever having written a single word of fic. (In fact, someone who regularly comments on my stories in ff.net doesn't write at all, but the quality of her comments suggests that she would be a kickass beta.)

My instruction to find someone who writes better than you was written with one thing in mind: that beginning writers frequently turn to their buds for "beta" duties, and very often those buds have the same or similar weaknesses as the author. I believe this accounts for many instances of error-riddled fanfic arriving at the internet even though one or more beta readers are credited.