I posting this and making it Public! Oh my!
So today I was reading this news article --> Iranian clerics lash out on veiling.
And then I made the very bad mistake of reading the commentary by the so called educated masses.
This really, really pissed me off.
witzelsucht at 1:39 AM June 19, 2010
Here we must draw the limits of cultural tolerance. A few Islamic laws put into practice in any Western society destroys democracy. The question why so many millions of seemingly intelligent humans allow myth and fantasy to rule their lives boggles the mind.
What would the world become if Islam spread its poison to all countries? We have a model. Unchecked Christianity murdered millions in European religious wars and witch-burnings and gave pardon to all sorts of barbaric behavior. Scientific thought ceased for 1500 years until the Renaissance, which the deaths of many brave thinkers paid for. Atheism carried the death penalty in England until the late 1700s. Superstition in the United States continues to influence our own citizens through the collective insanity known as religion. Such examples as this from Iran remind us to wake up from those fairy tales and maintain separation of church and state.
Someone replies to the loser above and he replies in turn:
John DeBello at 3:01 AM June 19, 2010
"...we must draw the limits of cultural tolerance." It seems the Iranian hardliners have an ally in witzelsucht. If one argues that all religions are "collective insanity," one can also argue that all governments are corrupt, all drivers are reckless, all animals rabid. The solution isn't to eliminate governance, autos, and animals. It's to respond with reason to fanaticism, not play a self-defeating game of Can You Top That.
Separation of church and state makes perfect sense. But fanatical anti-religion has no more place in a civilized society than religious fanaticism. And it never ceases to amuse me that self-righteous atheists seem to have a small memory lapse when it comes to barbarity...the most horrific conflict in history was a war between Nazi and Communist nations, each of whom specialized in suppressing religion to a level witzelsucht can only dream of.
witzelsucht at 4:17 AM June 19, 2010
You quoted me, then responded to my quote with a flurry of inane non sequiturs. If only one person walked about preaching sky people and dead people rising, that person would be on the way to the insane asylum; when several people do, it's called religion. I doubt you know much about religion. Here's a clue: There's not a shred of proof for its claims. Even religious "moderates" supply the framework for fanaticism to grow. Modern society since the Renaissance has suppressed religion and its fanaticism with reason, as you should have recognized.
The American founders who today would be atheists established separation of church and state, and the USA is the better for it, as I, history, and this article clearly demonstrate.
Finally, humans can be evil with or without religion, but they are most evil with it. Atheists don't go around killing people because of religion. When humans evolve to a higher plane, religion and its lies will fade into history.
My reply:
I always find it amusing when people assume that our founding fathers would have been atheists today and that is their apparent atheism, is the main reasoning behind separation of Church and State.
I mean, no, they didn't believe in separation of church and state because they had come from a totalitarian government that used religion as a means of subjugating the masses. Nor was it the fact that they believed that a true democratic society had to be in a position that accepted all people regardless of faith. Or that many of them weren't atheists, but more deists- who, get this, believe in God. Ouch! No, the real reason was because they were atheists.
witzelsucht, perhaps it is you who both needs to a) take a history lesson and b) learn about religions. As much as I don't personally believe in religions, they aren't to blame for those wars, the witch burnings or even women wearing veils. People are. The Muslim faith hasn't always been like it is today, just like every other religion on the planet. People corrupt and use them to fit their own agendas and propaganda. The mere fact that you ignore this simple little fact, shows how woefully ignorant and self-righteous you really are.
“Finally, humans can be evil with or without religion, but they are most evil with it. Atheists don't go around killing people because of religion. When humans evolve to a higher plane, religion and its lies will fade into history.”
I beg to differ- people are evil regardless of religion. Religion is used as a tool, nothing more. And by your reasoning, atheists kill people to just kill people. How is that any less evil?
I would also like to point out; there has never been a true Holy War. Every single one of them both in the past and today, are ultimately about power and money. They were called Holy Wars, because religion was used as an excuse to kill people. Wait, let’s back up- haven’t we also used political differences, ethnic and racial differences, and even national differences to, oh I don’t know, make war and kill each other? Oh my god, yes we have! This can only mean that we kill each other and blame it on something else to give ourselves justification. Hence, religion doesn’t make us evil, we make ourselves evil.
When it comes down to it, your arguments only prove that you are more like those fundamentalist Muslims than you realize. You are both ignorant and intolerant. Bravo!
I really need to stop reading the public commentary on news articles- it only makes me realize how much I hate people.
And then I made the very bad mistake of reading the commentary by the so called educated masses.
This really, really pissed me off.
witzelsucht at 1:39 AM June 19, 2010
Here we must draw the limits of cultural tolerance. A few Islamic laws put into practice in any Western society destroys democracy. The question why so many millions of seemingly intelligent humans allow myth and fantasy to rule their lives boggles the mind.
What would the world become if Islam spread its poison to all countries? We have a model. Unchecked Christianity murdered millions in European religious wars and witch-burnings and gave pardon to all sorts of barbaric behavior. Scientific thought ceased for 1500 years until the Renaissance, which the deaths of many brave thinkers paid for. Atheism carried the death penalty in England until the late 1700s. Superstition in the United States continues to influence our own citizens through the collective insanity known as religion. Such examples as this from Iran remind us to wake up from those fairy tales and maintain separation of church and state.
Someone replies to the loser above and he replies in turn:
John DeBello at 3:01 AM June 19, 2010
"...we must draw the limits of cultural tolerance." It seems the Iranian hardliners have an ally in witzelsucht. If one argues that all religions are "collective insanity," one can also argue that all governments are corrupt, all drivers are reckless, all animals rabid. The solution isn't to eliminate governance, autos, and animals. It's to respond with reason to fanaticism, not play a self-defeating game of Can You Top That.
Separation of church and state makes perfect sense. But fanatical anti-religion has no more place in a civilized society than religious fanaticism. And it never ceases to amuse me that self-righteous atheists seem to have a small memory lapse when it comes to barbarity...the most horrific conflict in history was a war between Nazi and Communist nations, each of whom specialized in suppressing religion to a level witzelsucht can only dream of.
witzelsucht at 4:17 AM June 19, 2010
You quoted me, then responded to my quote with a flurry of inane non sequiturs. If only one person walked about preaching sky people and dead people rising, that person would be on the way to the insane asylum; when several people do, it's called religion. I doubt you know much about religion. Here's a clue: There's not a shred of proof for its claims. Even religious "moderates" supply the framework for fanaticism to grow. Modern society since the Renaissance has suppressed religion and its fanaticism with reason, as you should have recognized.
The American founders who today would be atheists established separation of church and state, and the USA is the better for it, as I, history, and this article clearly demonstrate.
Finally, humans can be evil with or without religion, but they are most evil with it. Atheists don't go around killing people because of religion. When humans evolve to a higher plane, religion and its lies will fade into history.
My reply:
I always find it amusing when people assume that our founding fathers would have been atheists today and that is their apparent atheism, is the main reasoning behind separation of Church and State.
I mean, no, they didn't believe in separation of church and state because they had come from a totalitarian government that used religion as a means of subjugating the masses. Nor was it the fact that they believed that a true democratic society had to be in a position that accepted all people regardless of faith. Or that many of them weren't atheists, but more deists- who, get this, believe in God. Ouch! No, the real reason was because they were atheists.
witzelsucht, perhaps it is you who both needs to a) take a history lesson and b) learn about religions. As much as I don't personally believe in religions, they aren't to blame for those wars, the witch burnings or even women wearing veils. People are. The Muslim faith hasn't always been like it is today, just like every other religion on the planet. People corrupt and use them to fit their own agendas and propaganda. The mere fact that you ignore this simple little fact, shows how woefully ignorant and self-righteous you really are.
“Finally, humans can be evil with or without religion, but they are most evil with it. Atheists don't go around killing people because of religion. When humans evolve to a higher plane, religion and its lies will fade into history.”
I beg to differ- people are evil regardless of religion. Religion is used as a tool, nothing more. And by your reasoning, atheists kill people to just kill people. How is that any less evil?
I would also like to point out; there has never been a true Holy War. Every single one of them both in the past and today, are ultimately about power and money. They were called Holy Wars, because religion was used as an excuse to kill people. Wait, let’s back up- haven’t we also used political differences, ethnic and racial differences, and even national differences to, oh I don’t know, make war and kill each other? Oh my god, yes we have! This can only mean that we kill each other and blame it on something else to give ourselves justification. Hence, religion doesn’t make us evil, we make ourselves evil.
When it comes down to it, your arguments only prove that you are more like those fundamentalist Muslims than you realize. You are both ignorant and intolerant. Bravo!
I really need to stop reading the public commentary on news articles- it only makes me realize how much I hate people.