Taking the Moral Low Ground
So actadiurna posted something interesting.
There appear to be two points being made here, one regarding the conduct of senior members of OTO, particularly in leadership position and one regarding the more general populace. In order:
He makes the point that our leaders should be expected to uphold the moral codes, ruling & tenants of our order. I couldn't agree more. The question is what are those? There is no caveat on either the ruling regards illegal substances or the post, so as a martial order of Knight-Monks of Thelema is it part of our moral code to readily submit to the rulings of civil authorities, no matter how unreasonable.
What of countries where alcohol is illegal? Do we not perform our central public ritual? Whilst we're on the subject of adhering to the rulings of civil authorities... Within the UK, and possibly elsewhere, there are some rather odd rulings on S&M. such that An act which, if perpetrated on an unwilling victim would constitute assault and actual bodily harm, still constitutes exactly the same criminal offense if done with the freely given and fully informed consent of all parties involved. For more details see here.
So based on this ruling, any performance of the current, official, EGC Confirmation Ceremony is against the law in this country. Are you suggesting that the EGC in this country should no longer perform said ritual? Not to mention the other private rituals of the order that cannot be discussed in a public forum that also fall into the category of assault, and in some cases ABH (actual bodily harm).
The fundamental question here is not whether the USGL should allow and/or condone illegal activities at it's events, as an incorporated entity it simply cannot. However the moral codes/tenants of our organisation are a different matter. Do we make a fundamental, conscious decision that members of OTO are expected to respect & revere the leaders of our order, simply because they are leaders? Should we continue to do so if they become tyrannical oppressors, or worse ineffectual puppets? But more fundamentally should there be any single course imposed on all in an arbitrary manner, or is our religion/philosophy more conducive to an approach where each may make these decisions for themselves, perhaps by appeal to some holy text?
If we hold the last statement to be true then we make a mockery of the concept that our leadership should all stand united, if this is a fundamental precept of our philosophical organisation, then surely we should revel in our differences, not seek to repress them. Let our leaders glory in their differences, preferably with a modicum of mutual respect. Should not that be our moral code and our strength of purpose.
There appear to be two points being made here, one regarding the conduct of senior members of OTO, particularly in leadership position and one regarding the more general populace. In order:
He makes the point that our leaders should be expected to uphold the moral codes, ruling & tenants of our order. I couldn't agree more. The question is what are those? There is no caveat on either the ruling regards illegal substances or the post, so as a martial order of Knight-Monks of Thelema is it part of our moral code to readily submit to the rulings of civil authorities, no matter how unreasonable.
What of countries where alcohol is illegal? Do we not perform our central public ritual? Whilst we're on the subject of adhering to the rulings of civil authorities... Within the UK, and possibly elsewhere, there are some rather odd rulings on S&M. such that An act which, if perpetrated on an unwilling victim would constitute assault and actual bodily harm, still constitutes exactly the same criminal offense if done with the freely given and fully informed consent of all parties involved. For more details see here.
So based on this ruling, any performance of the current, official, EGC Confirmation Ceremony is against the law in this country. Are you suggesting that the EGC in this country should no longer perform said ritual? Not to mention the other private rituals of the order that cannot be discussed in a public forum that also fall into the category of assault, and in some cases ABH (actual bodily harm).
The fundamental question here is not whether the USGL should allow and/or condone illegal activities at it's events, as an incorporated entity it simply cannot. However the moral codes/tenants of our organisation are a different matter. Do we make a fundamental, conscious decision that members of OTO are expected to respect & revere the leaders of our order, simply because they are leaders? Should we continue to do so if they become tyrannical oppressors, or worse ineffectual puppets? But more fundamentally should there be any single course imposed on all in an arbitrary manner, or is our religion/philosophy more conducive to an approach where each may make these decisions for themselves, perhaps by appeal to some holy text?
If we hold the last statement to be true then we make a mockery of the concept that our leadership should all stand united, if this is a fundamental precept of our philosophical organisation, then surely we should revel in our differences, not seek to repress them. Let our leaders glory in their differences, preferably with a modicum of mutual respect. Should not that be our moral code and our strength of purpose.