Something I've seen recently, from both Sassafrass group members and non-members, is Sundown being described as an opera. But, it's not, really
( Read more... )
1) Looking forward to Sundown, very much! Whatever it's called. :)
2) I feel like that definition of opera is reeeeally broad, even aside from the distinction between opera and musical theater. Like it seems like a thing that operas and musical theater both have that not all forms of musical storytelling have is that they behave like plays? Particular actors portraying particular characters, there's blocking and staging and costumes, etc.
Whereas that doesn't seem true of, say, oratorios (ish? now I kind of am uncertain, since I'm really only familiar with Handel's Messiah and I take it that is not exactly normal for an oratorio either?, bluh it has been too long since I took First Nights), or song cycles.
3) I like that your opera definition discusses the nature of the singing and the nature of the music to they lyrics, and not just whether the thing is all-sung or part sung and part spoken. Since, say, Les Mis is sung through (certainly has waaaay less spoken dialog than, say Pirates of Penzance), but I've never heard it called an opera and often heard it called a musical.
4)Do you think the use might partly just be based on whether the music feels "classical" or is in a more modern genre? Though I guess I've heard the term "rock opera." And I guess the genre distinction does inform how the singers are trained, whether they have to be heard over an orchestra, etc.
1) I'm guessing you've seen the Kickstarter already, but in case you haven't, here it is :).
2) Yeah, I was mostly concentrating on those two genres because Sundown unquestionably tells a story (at least, the full production does), has specific characters, staging (though actually quite a bit less of it than I would have liked to see), etc. But there are certainly other genres that have as much relationship to musical theater and/or opera as those do to each other, and unsurprisingly there are productions that fall somewhere between those other categories too - Songs for a New World is a great example of this, it's a 50/50 chance at any time whether I'll call it a musical or a song cycle :). I actually thought of Sundown as a song cycle more than anything else until we rehearsed the full show a week and a half ago, and that would still feel like a better term for it if all of the songs were performed in order without the scenes.
3) Oh man Les Mis :P. I almost but not quite included that as an example of a musical with strong motifs, but I have in fact seen it argued that it's supposed to be at least somewhat operatic. I agree with you, though, it really feels to me more like a musical than an opera, and I think it's the type of singing that does that for me.
4) I think for most people, including me, hearing a "classical" sound definitely helps something lean towards "opera." And as you mention, the type of singing/training necessary for the piece, which for opera has a particular sound, helps define a piece (at least, that's what I'm arguing here).
But in terms of harmonic content, I don't think "classical" necessarily means opera. More than anything else, Sundown is based on Renaissance sounds (and goodness knows Norse mythology is not exactly an absent theme in opera :D), but I don't think those things define the genre of the show in the absence of other characteristics. And as you've mentioned, the Messiah is very classical sounding but isn't an opera, either. (Wikipedia tells me that oratorios are distinct from operas in that they're not staged, but typically oratorios have characters, soloists, arias, etc., and the lack of characters makes Handel's Messiah distinctive among oratorios.)
2) I feel like that definition of opera is reeeeally broad, even aside from the distinction between opera and musical theater. Like it seems like a thing that operas and musical theater both have that not all forms of musical storytelling have is that they behave like plays? Particular actors portraying particular characters, there's blocking and staging and costumes, etc.
Whereas that doesn't seem true of, say, oratorios (ish? now I kind of am uncertain, since I'm really only familiar with Handel's Messiah and I take it that is not exactly normal for an oratorio either?, bluh it has been too long since I took First Nights), or song cycles.
3) I like that your opera definition discusses the nature of the singing and the nature of the music to they lyrics, and not just whether the thing is all-sung or part sung and part spoken. Since, say, Les Mis is sung through (certainly has waaaay less spoken dialog than, say Pirates of Penzance), but I've never heard it called an opera and often heard it called a musical.
4)Do you think the use might partly just be based on whether the music feels "classical" or is in a more modern genre? Though I guess I've heard the term "rock opera." And I guess the genre distinction does inform how the singers are trained, whether they have to be heard over an orchestra, etc.
Reply
2) Yeah, I was mostly concentrating on those two genres because Sundown unquestionably tells a story (at least, the full production does), has specific characters, staging (though actually quite a bit less of it than I would have liked to see), etc. But there are certainly other genres that have as much relationship to musical theater and/or opera as those do to each other, and unsurprisingly there are productions that fall somewhere between those other categories too - Songs for a New World is a great example of this, it's a 50/50 chance at any time whether I'll call it a musical or a song cycle :). I actually thought of Sundown as a song cycle more than anything else until we rehearsed the full show a week and a half ago, and that would still feel like a better term for it if all of the songs were performed in order without the scenes.
3) Oh man Les Mis :P. I almost but not quite included that as an example of a musical with strong motifs, but I have in fact seen it argued that it's supposed to be at least somewhat operatic. I agree with you, though, it really feels to me more like a musical than an opera, and I think it's the type of singing that does that for me.
4) I think for most people, including me, hearing a "classical" sound definitely helps something lean towards "opera." And as you mention, the type of singing/training necessary for the piece, which for opera has a particular sound, helps define a piece (at least, that's what I'm arguing here).
But in terms of harmonic content, I don't think "classical" necessarily means opera. More than anything else, Sundown is based on Renaissance sounds (and goodness knows Norse mythology is not exactly an absent theme in opera :D), but I don't think those things define the genre of the show in the absence of other characteristics. And as you've mentioned, the Messiah is very classical sounding but isn't an opera, either. (Wikipedia tells me that oratorios are distinct from operas in that they're not staged, but typically oratorios have characters, soloists, arias, etc., and the lack of characters makes Handel's Messiah distinctive among oratorios.)
Reply
Leave a comment