Warnings - The Dead Tree Remix
I was talking about fandom stuff with a friend the other day, and the subject of warnings came up. Basically, we came down on opposite sides of the on-going argument about them. I'm for them, as I like to know what I'm getting into. She doesn't like spoilers, and feels that warnings can rob a story of its impact. (She did also point out that
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But I also, personally, have a fairly heavy distaste for "spoilers", even of the most minor variety, if they prevent one from experiencing the surprise, or doubt, of a moment as-intended.
And sometimes, warnings are spoilers. I really, really appreciate the introduction of the white-out code.
I like to be able to figure stuff out myself, OR be completely floored by it - I get really aggravated if that's interrupted for me. BUT I KNOW THAT'S ME AND NOT EVERYONE :D. That was thoroughly reinforced when those of my flist who responded to a querying post said, universally, I will take the complete undercutting of a plot twist over reading a pairing or a thing I do not like. Which I cannot comprehend, but I can at least not fuck with :).
Some of my favourite things are those into which I've gone knowing nothing. District 9 - I knew it was "some movie with aliens in it". Didn't even know the basic setup, so everything was fresh. All I knew about Lindqvist's book Let The Right One In was that there was a kid who made friends with a vampire. That made it all so much more heart-in-mouth when stuff was happening.
Now, ok, you're completely right that there are cues, and sometimes those can be author rep, cover art, title, etc. I tend to not read book reviews. "Here, read this, it's cool and steampunky and has clever characterisation." That's plenty :). I'll figure out pretty quickly if I'm not gonna like it. Actually, maybe not; I slogged through half of Dhalgren before abandoning the cruddy thing.
Had D9 been a Disney film, or a standard US-style film, there were likely ways it would have panned out. But it wasn't, and so those cues *weren't there* - all bets were off, basically, and it wasn't clear if it was going to be a downer, an upper, something ambiguous... nor even, really, at which point the filmmakers would choose to end it, and say, hey, yep, that's where we were going with this. It was visually gritty (the poster has more cues, but I only saw that on my way past, rushing late into the theatre), and early on it was clear it was not a punch-pulling movie... which meant even more that it was gonna be unpredictable.
I used The Time Traveller's Wife as an example to you - seriously, it was NOT obvious to me how it would pan out. I thought maybe he'd see HER die. I think it was so much more powerful not knowing the "warnings" for that story.
HOWEVER. That's me, and my preferred experience, and I'm certainly not going to try to start any anti-warning movement. Hah, imagine it! They presumably started up because people wanted them - I remember mentioning the picture of Ponderosa's with a 7yo Draco being raped by Fenrir, which, you know, actually not legal for me to have in my computer's cache, and i requested an upgraded warning on that, being used to "chan" having a wider age range and the younger stuff being UNUSUAL.
I find pictures different, actually, cos they tend to be an image rather than a narrative, so spoilers aren't such an issue. And reading blood is different from seeing it. You can skim, but you can't unsee... I'll warn for all sorts of things in pictures... comics span that, and I prefer to read THOSE warning free, too. Cut my teeth on some very gory, dark-themed comics, and again, they were more compelling for not being forewarned.
What'm I getting to... no, I have no point. I enjoyed your thoughtful post, and I stick firmly to my UTTERLY subjective preference :).
Though! Actually! When looking for porn, it *would* be kinda nice if the sex-stuff was in a separate section to the warning-stuff. Like, rape is a warning, but figging is a kink :). Though again, I guess that's super subjective too. Ferfuck's sake, I've seen "warnings" for "M/M sex" in an NC-17 H/D story. I mean. No shit. That was going to come as a surprise to someone?
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Another point in the fic vs book factors that wordflake raises below is that fanfic (and fanart) are often way the hell more explicit than anything you'll find in mainstream media. So things that may appear in a glossed-over, fade-to-black kind of way in a novel or on TV, are laid out in excruciating/glorious (depending on your tastes) detail in a fic.
The white-out code is a great way for everyone to be a winner. I am kicking myself for not using it in hds_beltane, but I totally will be next year.
I do get what you mean about allowing the story and plot-twists to just take you by surprise. There can be something really rewarding in that. The whole, "Oh my god, I can't believe they did that," thing. I was very impressed with The Demon's Covenant, although I knew I was in safe hands with that one. :oP
And the thing is that it totally depends on things like the mood you're in at the time. Sometimes I am happy to just put myself in someone's hands and let them blow me away if they can. But, and this may be my control-freakery speaking, I want to be able to choose when today is the day to do that. I want to be able to say, today I want to read something that is good, and well-written, but not necessarily challenging.
The nice thing is that the white out code answers all these issues.
Good point about the art being a different kettle of fish, too. Build up in a fic may give a sensitive reader enough clues to back away, where an image is just plain there.
I'm wondering if some fine-tuning could be done for headers. I, too, have seen 'warnings' like "Pairing: H/D, Warning: contains boy-kissing". Erm, yeah? And? I'm sure I saw someone separate out actual warnings and other stuff, and there was brilliant phrasing, but I am damned if I remember what it was or where I saw it. Even something like 'Notes' would do the job. 'Things you might like to know'? Under white out, of course.
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Explicitness... naw. Not really. Vs most TV, sure, even when shows like Spartacus, The Wire, and Oz (even True Blood is a bit more R-rated than usual) enter the mix. Shortbus had explicit sex, but it was pretty mild.
But books? I've read nothing in fanfic which is MORE explicit than things I've read in print. Irvine Welsh doesn't exactly pull his punches, nor do any number of pulpy horror or crime writers I read as a teenager - and I found that generally, if a book was going for explicit violence, it'd go for explicit sex, too, and about half the time would split the difference and go for rape, lovingly described over multiple pages.
The proportion of sex (and I'm using sex, here, as extreme violence is unusual in fanfic, other than as a prelude to some sort of H/C sex) to story - that's something I would think any publisher other than one of erotica would point to and make "ahem" noises about plot. Am reading a WIP original fic online right now which is driving me NUTS with the ratio of sex:plot (it's something like 10:1). It didn't actually start out that way, and unfortunately I want to know how it ends.
To warn or not to warn. If one feels very strongly that warning AT ALL is not something one wants to do, simply do as I've seen folk do - SAY that upfront, and understand that someone who cares very strongly about choosing their content won't read the story. The reader way around that is to get someone to vet it for you :). "You'll be okay - there's evisceration, but no eyeballs."
It's interesting that you say your interest in warnings comes from being a control freak - I certainly feel like a control freak with my loathing of spoilers. I don't even really like to know there's a twist - I want to control, utterly, my exposure to prior knowledge, so that I can have an unadulterated response.
Having said all that, though - it only matters if it's something about which I genuinely give a shit :). I queued for DH with an mp3 player on fairly loud so as to avoid any same-day spoilers, and avoided the internet Quite a Bit in the lead-up, but I've read whole synopses about films that look average to see if they're worth spending the time.
I've never flicked to the back of a book, though.
I mean, if a story is a piece of crap, it's already spoiled, regardless of whether I know what'll happen. If it's GOOD, though, I want to have the full experience.
Now, here's another thing about warnings that I've previously noted in a comment on a fic. If it's a kink-warning, and it's one you WANT to see... you might spend the whole story mentally going ARE WE THERE YET. Particularly if it's one that's rarely seen! I inadvertently saw a warning for a later chapter in a WIP once (thought the warnings were by chapter, and went to see what they'd said after I read it), and then it was rewritten before that kink showed up. I felt cheated :).
Or pairings - I remember being mildly annoyed by a pairing that was listed somewhere, because it only happened in a dream sequence, and to me, that didn't count at all. Rather than being able to just appreciate the dream sequence, I was left wondering how X was going to get with Y when there was so little of the story left... not much time now... is it going to be a threesome? Oh. Huh.
blahdeblah :).
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