The Art Of Writing Jacob/Esau

[hitlikehammers]

First and foremost, I have to thank tellshannon815 for inviting me to a lead discussion here again -- this time about yet another of my very favorite pairings, involving two of my very favorite characters: the almighty Jacob and his awesome brother, Smokey/Man In Black/Nameless Boy/Dr. Smoke/Esau. I’m going to mostly stick with Esau from here on out, though.

But

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[devilsduplicity]

And here I come, slinking along, desperately late to the party. I'm the tail end straggler of a struggling group, the drunken teenager prodded awake by the janitor's broom handle at the end of senior prom.

First off, beautiful dissertation on this pairing. I found myself nodding along more often than not, and you brought up a lot of points I'd never considered before. The writing was marvelous enough to make even this, a veritable essay, an extremely satisfying read

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[devilsduplicity]

5) Once again, I'm fairly new to this fandom, so in regards to things like that, I'm not well-versed into the general reactions of Lost fandom itself. But, having come over from Supernatural, I can apply this to much the same idea.

In Supernatural, there was some speculation as to whether or not Sam Winchester was the antichrist. Fiction was written accordingly. And even though the show disproved that theory, I'm still fascinated by the idea of Boy King Sam, and would happily accept more fanfic about him.

Put in Lost terms, I would gladly explore stories from both before and after this episode. I love fan speculation on the origin of characters, and I think the creativity of any fandom can flourish under these kinds of conditions. On the other end of the spectrum, I also adore the canon story that Lost brought into play for these two characters, so I'd certainly take that, as well.

6) God, I'm such a child at this. I've not read enough to form a strong opinion, but I'll tell you the idea I'm most attracted to, and that is the 'I

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[devilsduplicity]

10) ………. I didn't even think about this. Brb, hyperventilating.

Back.

Well. It only ends once. The rest is just progress.

But progress always needs a start.

I think Lost is a video game. Jacob and Esau are the twelve-year-olds who keep hitting 'reset'.

11) I'm working up writing a real-sized fanfic of these boys, and as with Supernatural fandom, I tend to lean towards humorous elements. Something light. Something fluffy. I think there is so much angst generated by these two that a level of playfulness will definitely be my starting point. But, once again, the sheer potential of this pairing makes way for so many wonderful ideas that, really, it's just a matter of where they'll lead me.

12)Jacob = the bad kid turned good

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[hitlikehammers]

10.) I think Lost is a video game. Jacob and Esau are the twelve-year-olds who keep hitting 'reset'.

Yes. PLEASE.

11.) I think another really appealing aspect of these two is their versatility. I'm writing dark humor with them now (and crossing them with Heroes and Doctor Who fandom while I'm at it, but that's another story ;) ), and I'd like to think it works for them just as well as fluff or angst or smut.

12.) Lost's strictly-dichotomous viewpoints are at times rather stifling, aren't they? Thank goodness for fandom, where we can tell said stiflers to go away ;)

13.) Have you ever seen the film The Nines? Your rating system (which is awesome, by the way, particularly when one = Leslie) totally made me think of it

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[devilsduplicity]

10) Dammit, I have to write it now. I can't ignore an allcaps'd please.

11) (Once again, Lost and crossovers is sort of like legalized crack. Addictive, and you just keep coming back for more.) Absolutely. The best thing I can think to do right now is set up the overarching storyline with something humorous (For instance, I've just started a Jacob/Richard/Esau last night, where Vincent is God. >>), then take people completely unawares by adding in these other aspects of the pairing. The tension, the darkness is so natural, it'd be odd to keep it out of the story. Also, dark humour is the best.

12) They're fascinating, and just begging for a battering ram to break them apart. The delivery of what they've given us, as a whole, is pretty awesome in itself. Good vs. Evil, Good vs. Evil, Good vs. Evil-- OH LOOK. There is no good or evil!

13) No I have not! But it's funny you mentioned that, because my friend just the other day pointed out the fact that we need to watch it. It's a collection of loosely connected stories, yes

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[hitlikehammers]

10.) Of course you should write it now. The CAPS cannot be denied ;)

11.) I'm actually going to employ the CAPS-PLEASE again -- humorous Vincent is God? Do it. I did a Vincent-is-Jacob-is-God thing not too long ago, but it was VERY!serious, and the potential for comedy there? Yes please.

12.) There is no good or evil!

Yes! And I feel like now is an appropriate time to say "Only Siths deal in absolutes."

13.) It's a really excellent movie, imho; the stories are... loosely connected, in a sense, but they come together beautifully when you discover what the movie itself is all about. It's very unique in the way it's put together.

14.) I'm flattered that you'd want to pick through my masterlist (which I'm trying to update now and failing miserably, because it's tedious and my attention span is doing me no favors of late) -- but yes that's Ben/Richard, because they are one of my very favorite pairings ever <3

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[hitlikehammers]

5.) Seeing as you're cool with it, I'll definitely bite at the SPN parallels (I have a weakness for Lost-Supernatural fushion-y discussions, etc.): Boy King Sam is a truly epic idea with connotations that are desperately intriguing, and I think that the willingness to explore those connotations is what makes fandom such a wonderful place, because without the license to stretch, break, and outright defy established canon, the opportunities for creativity that such ideas present would be squandered. (Admittedly, though, while I fangirled SPN in my own living room since forever ago, I've only participated/stopped lurking in fandom recently). In Lost, speculation has always been a given in my encounters with both the established online fandom, as well as among "hardcore" and "casual" viewers who aren't fandom-oriented, so to speak, so that element of... ambivalence toward canon, in terms of being able to explore other ideas and have them received with enthusiasm, has seemingly (from my perspective, at least) been a given. Particularly

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[devilsduplicity]

5) Lost/Supernatural crossovers/fusion have so much potential, it's just plain ridiculous. I'd like to see more of it circling around the internet, actually. (And I'm totally gonna write a Lost/Supernatural/Stonehenge Apocalypse fic, because come on. Those shows can be crossed with anything.) I think that's the greatest thing about Lost -- it lets you think. It doesn't take the easy way out and reveal all the answers in a Deus Ex Machina manner. It makes you question. I've finished the series, and I'm still questioning. And yes, some of these things can be attributed to the writers being lazy and forgetting to resolve a specific problem, but, too, I also think Lost leaves a lot of it out there because it wants you to explore all the possibilities. If you have to use brainpower to solve a problem, then you become invested in it, concerned about the outcome. It becomes yours, and I think that's exactly what the writers have done -- made Lost ours.

6) Me? Once it's on the internet, it's fair game, my friend. We should just make a

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[hitlikehammers]

5.) For sure; when I finally lifted my self-imposed moratorium on participation in SPN fandom, I realized that I have a bit of a love affair with crossing these two fandoms. (For example, I have absolutely no intention of signing up for the SPN big bang with a crossover where John and Mary end up on the Island with the Dharma Initiative. I don't even have an outline for it or anything. At all... *whistles innocently*) Anyway; I wholeheartedly agree that one of Lost's crowning achievements, and most appealing aspects, was the way it invited the viewers to engage and critically evaluate and imagine and create on their own terms, within the context of the show as well as the larger mythology. It truly did allow us to invest in it and make the show and its characters our own, and I believe, from a more practical standpoint, that this very thing may have been what saved the show in its more... absurd moments, shall we say -- that ownership, and that reluctance of the invested audience to give up on something they now had a viable stake in

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[hitlikehammers]

First and foremost: welcome to the fandom! It's always wonderful to see new faces (figuratively speaking) around :D And congratulations on making it through the series, and in such a short amount of time

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[devilsduplicity]

Thank you! I've heard Lost is one of the genuinely best fandoms out there, so I probably won't be lurking for too terribly long. Going through the series was an absolute pleasure, and, admittedly, done in sort of an obsessive manner. There were days when I didn't leave my room. We don't talk about those times. And, hey, it's always a delight to read a well-written meta. \o/

1) That's it exactly. They just work. Nothing's forced, nothing is emotionally/spiritually unrealistic -- they just work. There is something about them, like you mentioned before, whether it be the acting, the setting, the writing -- there is something about them that just clicks.

2) My favourite kind of writing is the exploration of what's going on beneath the skin. (It's why it's such a pleasure to write Lucifer in SPN fandom -- any angel, really. That sense of otherness that, in one moment, becomes something physical.) And the incest thing is more of a turn-on than a turn-off, for me. It's why I like slash fiction so much. Aside from copious amount of The

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[hitlikehammers]

I might be biased, but Lost is likely one of my favorite (if not my favorite, flat out) fandoms :)

Also... there's nothing wrong with the way you watched the series. It happens to the best of us.

2.) I completely and utterly agree with you -- I have a deep, abiding love for the depth of character that can be explored inside that sense of otherness, of separation. Likewise, I find the incest thing a turn-on as well, because I think there's something really unique about the mentality and the emotionality of it... there's that epic element of something that's innately raw and connected, bound in ways that other pairings can't quite replicate. You also make a very good point with these two -- it's a very different, almost innocent sort of thing, in a sense, at least at first, because they don't know what makes it right or wrong; I think it'd be intriguing to see that particular idea explored, perhaps as they later interact with the world in their own ways and discover the social mores that would seek to define their relationship.

4.)