I thought I might feel better if I wrote about this.

Mar 21, 2009 01:47

This isn't a review of Battlestar Galactica's final episode. I'll get to that tomorrow. Or... sometime, I'm sure. (I think it was probably a very beautiful conclusion, in a lot of ways. Certainly, there were moments when, contrary to my expectations, I felt real delight). I'm only putting this behind a cut so that anyone who cares about BSG, hasn't ( Read more... )

bsg, angst

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valancy_s March 21 2009, 13:06:58 UTC
what it is that makes me feel so bleak and sick inside... the fact that the show takes away everyone Lee ever really cared about, or the fact that it tries to manipulate me into feeling happy about and embracing the fact.

Thank you for putting it this way because you've helped me understand my own reaction. My sister and I were arguing during the show, when they showed Hot Dog and Tyrol in quick succession, and I complained that I couldn't get over Nicki being abandoned. "Humanity has been abandoned," said my sister. This made me mad because it seemed like an expression of the show's attitude. Because frankly, I don't care about Humanity. I care about individual relationships. I care about Tyrol and I don't want them to show him as someone who could forget about the son he's raised.

And then Lee was abandoned. And we're not supposed to mind, because Roslin's death and Adama's departure and Kara's disappearance are supposed to be interesting and say things about the philosophies of the show. We're not meant think about the fact that the woman he was married to killed herself just a few weeks earlier and now he's lost every other meaningful relationship and is left to lead a new life by himself. We're just supposed to think "yay, a new life." It sickens me.

I'm glad Lee survived - it would have been, I realized about halfway in as bullets were flying - way too traumatic for me to watch him die. But his calm acceptance of both his father's and Kara's desertions was the final injustice to his character in a long string of them. I care about him as a person, and as a RELATIONAL personal. With the relationships he's developed over the past 5 years all taken away, how can they ask me to see this as a positive ending?

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snarkhunter March 21 2009, 14:36:38 UTC
Y'know, as I think about it more, I think Lee and Bill are both wrong.

He's going to come back eventually.

Bill Adama makes these grand, irrevocable gestures, and then ultimately changes his mind, or softens his heart, and takes them back. When he's come to terms with the loss of Laura, he'll realize he's left his son--AGAIN--and make his way back to Lee. Or Lee will find him.

I was seriously bothered by his not saying goodbye to Saul, too. They've been best friends for what? 30 years? And he just leaves? No. No. No. Even though Saul would probably understand--he's grieved for his wife, too.

On Kara's side of things, I don't necessarily regret her ending. On Lee's? You're right. It sucks. He's freaking Susan Pevensie in this ending.

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tinuviellen March 21 2009, 21:53:12 UTC
I like that thought. I agree, Bill isn't as much for all the never-never stuff as he thinks he is. That makes me feel better.

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thepresidentrix March 22 2009, 04:47:36 UTC
This is a really good point. I think this is what I'm going to tell myself to try to keep from getting any more overwrought about Lee and Bill.

As for Kara, I don't mind as *much,* (especially not from any betrayal/abandonment angle, at least) because if she was an apparition or an angel and her time was up, then she had to go. The scene itself could have been a little kinder to Lee's feelings, but I guess they felt it would be in keeping with Kara's character to make the final moments blunt.

I *am* disappointed that Kara never had to think about life - about moving on and actually living. It's a challenge she never really faced. I think of Lee telling her she's okay with dead guys but doesn't know what to do with the living ones. She didn't know what to do with her own living self, either, but as soon as she was a dead Kara, living on borrowed time and tilting toward Nirvana, suddenly everything got easy. (Angsty, but still kind of easy.). I wish she'd had to outlive her own 'purpose' because then she'd be just like the rest of us again.

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valancy_s March 22 2009, 14:48:20 UTC
I wish she'd had to outlive her own 'purpose' because then she'd be just like the rest of us again.

You put this whole paragraph so beautifully. It's what I was trying to say when I wrote that the show had decided she wasn't a person anymore. This was too simplistic and defeatist a way out for Kara; she needed to learn how to recover or just to be.

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snarkhunter March 21 2009, 14:40:34 UTC
Hm. On the other hand...

Lee's relational nature might be one of his strengths, but it's also one of his weaknesses. Baltar said last week something about how everything in Lee's life comes back to his feelings for Kara. And really, Lee is constantly caught in his reactions--when his father, Kara, or Roslin are in danger or in need, he responds, to detriment of all else, and without any sense of his own needs, most of the time. It's cruel, but to come into himself, as himself, maybe he needs a completely clean slate?

Ugh. I don't like that, necessarily, but I wonder if that wasn't the thought process behind it. Make him into the Lone Hero.

In my post about this being Victorian, I was sort of joking. But the more I think about it, the truer it is. There's the enshrinement of family (the Agathons, Ellen & Saul, Caprica & Baltar) but there's also the way the show embraces the masculine adventure, going forth and conquering, etc.

And on a totally different note--yeah, Hotdog and Tyrol abandoning Nicky? NOT COOL.

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thepresidentrix March 22 2009, 04:58:13 UTC
I don't like that at all. (I know you're not necessarily saying you do, either).

1) Who else on the show gets held to such a high standard of independence? The other characters may not be quite as... self-effacing isn't the right word, though it comes close... as Lee, but they still make a lot of their decisions personal rather than genuinely professional. Why is Saul Tigh still Bill's XO, even after being outed as a Cylon? Because Bill can't (or won't) do without him. Everybody else is totally allowed and encouraged to be co-dependent on someone. But Lee's need for companionship and approval just show he's The Weak One? That may be what the writers are thinking, but it doesn't come across as a very fair comparison between the characters.

2) I hate the idea that strength and heroism are defined or demonstrated by shedding all personal ties.

3) Plus, how does letting his father leave him without any objection, and letting Kara go without even a reaction acknowledging his own emotions (like, a week ago, he told her that all that really matters to him is that they're still HERE, together) show that he's gotten past responding, to detriment of all else, and without any sense of his own needs? I'm not criticizing your reading of his character, which I think is right, but rather the idea (which may well be what the writers had in view) that this ending fulfills Lee's character instead of violating it.

Grr. Arrgh.

I need to take a chill pill.

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valancy_s March 22 2009, 14:40:40 UTC
I like your idea of Bill coming back after his grand gesture is done. That's now happening in my mind. He is like that - goodhearted under a thick layer of melodrama.

Even if Lee's relational nature is a weakness, though, isn't it a weakness everyone has to learn to deal with? Perhaps he could be an ideal version of himself in a vaccuum, with no human connections, but what would be the point of that? Life is about relationships... at least, so I believe. I can see that the writers might idealize the lone hero concept, but it isn't any comfort to me.

You're definitely right about the enshinement of family - nuclear families, since Chief and Nicky don't count as a family, apparently!

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Half of his ship fell off and nobody likes him. thepresidentrix March 22 2009, 21:25:59 UTC
I'm pretty sure it would still make them dead wrong, but I almost wish I did think the writers' goal was to show how lone and heroic and heroic and lone Lee is now. Instead of, as I suspect, taking their one last chance to remind him that nobody likes him.

(Wow, my bitterness increases with each passing day!)

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thepresidentrix March 22 2009, 04:17:24 UTC
I'm so impressed with your insight regarding the tension between the show's commitment to a vision and its commitment to individual characters and their relationships. I suppose there's a kind of grandiosity involved when Bill rides off into the sunset with his dying love (though it's far from the only grandiose possibility, so it's still not strictly *necessary*) and it does make some kind of statement about the completion of his journey. ('No ellipsis,' as Ron Moore is fond of saying). But it also, (cruelly and ironically) returns Adama to making the exact mistake that he began the series trying to get past: he FAILED his family.

The more I think about it, the more I don't think my reaction *is* all hyper-sensitivity on my part; Adama's decision is kind of an OUTRAGE. Being a grown man or woman may mean accepting the reality of your mortality and that of your parents, but I don't think it requires you to be willing to be abandoned *by choice.* And what kind of a parent who has made that choice once and had to come to terms with the ensuing regret makes it a second time - and FEELS JUSTIFIED IN DOING SO? It's not about whether Lee (and Kara) are able to manage without Adama (they are, and have been for a long time); it's about what it says to you when someone, anyone, who is supposed to truly value his relationship with you decides he'd rather go sit by a pile of rocks and die.

I'm also angry about the reactions that suggest in this way, Lee FINALLY BECOMES HIS OWN MAN. First of all, I get sick of hearing how that's the whole meaning and trajectory of Lee's story. It may be a coming-of-age story - or may have been, at one time - but hasn't Lee been his own man for a while now? What exactly does it require of you to qualify? Not having any more doubts or insecurities? Not depending on any network of relationships for support and comfort? Plenty of other characters on the show have hang-ups, second-guess themselves, and depend on others for the support they need to keep going, and no one ever suggests that they fail to qualify as 'their own persons.' (Plenty of the other characters also make policy decisions just to help, please, or rankle each other, in case they suggest *that's* what makes Lee fail to measure up). Second of all, I think if what it means to become your own man is that you arrive at a plane of existence beyond all need to be relational, that's a view I want no part in. Honestly, I think the one major hurtle Lee had yet to get over - a real fear I will always regret that the writers never went back and addressed - was his fear of becoming a father. (Maybe my own personal retcon will include Lee somehow adopting Nicky; somebody has to love Nicky, and we abondonees gotta stick together...) Third, and the comment you quote at your journal expresses this much better, one does not achieve self-actualization by other people choosing your life alone forever *for you.*

Meanwhile, right now I wonder if I would rather trade a loving or heroic death scene for this slap in the face of an ending. But had there been such a death for Lee, instead, it never would have occurred to me to think of this as the alternative. (His father just *leaves*? If you had tried to explain this to me instead of letting me watch it for myself, I don't think I would have *believed* you). Thus, I imagine Lee's death would have made me feel almost every bit as bad. :o(

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A few words in my defense tinuviellen March 23 2009, 14:25:21 UTC
Let me just explain myself since HC stopped us arguing during the show (so he could actually watch, silly man).I'm not saying I was happy about Hot Dog and Tyrol going into danger and not considering Nicky. And I'm not pleased with Tyrol's whole hermit thing, or the very idea that they ought to split up the survivors and go out into the wilderness with no relevant skills and no gear, which of course is patently ridiculous. (I mean, what does the Admiral think he's going to build his cabin with? There weren't even any trees.)

BUT. There are a couple ways that I think the other choice does make actual sense. First, both Tyrol and Hot Dog have been living under military discipline for years. People in the military routinely risk their lives despite having families. They make the choice to do that before they join up, or before they have kids. It's not as if Athena and Helo stopped flying missions or quit the service after Hera was born. I guess this is what I meant about Humanity being abandoned; they have responsibilities to the survival of the human and Cylon races, to society as a whole, and not just to their own child. Not that Nicky doesn't matter, but that everyone else does, too. And perhaps they feel that if they can save Hera, Nicky's life will be better even if they die.

And then, they've been living under conditions that are so extreme, so dangerous, that even a suicide mission can seem - well, a lot less momentous than it would to you and me, that's for sure. I even think there's a level to which, in their extreme group depression, that there'd be appeal to a kamikaze mission. If they fail, at least it would all be over. Less laudable, but it could be a factor.

That said, much as I could understand the choice to take part in the mission, I think it's most likely that Nicky was simply forgotten by the writers. That's the way it is with kids in most shows (or at least ones that aren't explicitly family shows) - they're tucked away when not convenient. And I think the writers would say both Tyrol and Hot Dog were vital to the rescue mission. Tyrol's role and stake in the outcome is obvious, but we also know that there aren't many pilots left (and not many that we know, either) especially when you have Lee and Kara, Athena and Helo fighting with the boarding party.

Does that make my reaction make a bit more sense?

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Re: A few words in my defense thepresidentrix March 23 2009, 16:19:21 UTC
No Trees is a good point, but I thought maybe the No Trees was there deliberately to signal us that this would be a Cabin of Delusion.

I guess the more people talk about it, the more living without technology is a silly idea, but I guess I didn't immediately assume that they'd be giving up medicine or tools for handicrafts. I thought they were talking mostly about guns and FTL drives and... handheld video games? (Although they show did make it look a lot more like they-love-to-go-awandering-their-knapsack-on-their-back).

Anyway, probably the only reason I got romantically entangled with Lee's idea was that it reminded me of the ideal city Socrates is describing in the Republic, before his interlocutors jump in and tell him that no one is going to want to live in his simple city; they're going to want luxuries and entertainments and wars. (After which the rest of the dialog, what with the noble lie and the taking the children from their parents and the women in common is all about the new, fevered city). Oh, that and all the LOVE. I really liked the idea of all the love, goofy me, but then Papadama and Kara said 'NO LOVE FOR YOU,' so now I'm like, Screw That! And I hope (as I have seen expressed elsewhere) you all go get eaten by carnivores!

That would make a good sequel series, methinks: Battlestar Galactica: Eaten By Carnivores. Who gets eaten this week! Stay tuned.

Except Lee would go exploring and tame himself a wild proto-horse and raise carrier pigeons. And shave with the solar powered electric razor he keeps in his jacket, so that he gets, you know, stubbly, but NOT TOO BEARDY.

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Re: A few words in my defense tinuviellen March 23 2009, 16:59:16 UTC
:)

Yes, let's hope not too beardy. Grizzly Adams would be a disastrous look for him (I mean, just think about what happens to his hair when it gets longer than a quarter of an inch!).

I'm sure the whole "let's split up the survivors" deal has more to do with honoring the original show (and it's contention that many ancient Earth civilizations were descended from the former colonist) than anything else. It's certainly not an actual survival plan that makes sense in any way, shape or form. I don't have any issues with the Romanticism of living off the land (though again, after New Caprica, you'd think they'd be more chary), so long as they attempted it together. Even the people who stayed on the same continent didn't even form a community. I guess I can see people wanting space, but still, it seems weird.

BUT, while that's all illogical, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the weirdness of Kara disappearing, the lack of resolution for her story (although that was sort of brave) and poor Lee being left alone. I guess they couldn't give everyone a happy ending...

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Re: A few words in my defense thepresidentrix March 23 2009, 17:53:20 UTC
But they CAN pretend everyone (but Tyrol, and Prima Donna Papadama) got a happy ending.

Bleh.

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Re: A few words in my defense tinuviellen March 23 2009, 20:17:47 UTC
Yeh. I'd have rather they all got happy endings. Or at least that the most important people got them.

Although I have to say, the best moment of the finale for me was seeing that Helo was still alive.

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Re: A few words in my defense thepresidentrix March 23 2009, 22:16:10 UTC
Oh, Helo... that was a huge relief for me, as well. I got attached to snarkhunter's theories about who would live or die, and she was sure Helo was safe. So when Helo was the first to go down, I panicked! It was like 'This means nobody's safe!!!' And you don't want anything to happen to good ol' Helo.

As nice a surprise as it was to have a happy ending, now that it's a few days later, I weirdly regret that there weren't a couple of memorable sacrifices (other than Sam - poor Sam). I mean, they went on a freaking crash-the-ship-into-the-evil-space-station suicide mission, and NOBODY DIED. Well, Racetrack...

Whoops, I forgot what I was really meaning to say, LOL: I saw the most recent episode of Dollhouse? And while I still have serious problems with the *idea* of the show, this episode was finally much more fun to watch. And Tahmoh...

a) I figured she was a doll - which makes me sad - but I can't help but identify with Tahmoh's cute neighbor. And what it must feel like to hear a guy like that tell you that you're gorgeous - all even and cool-like, too. ;o9

b) Those were some seriously amazing fight scenes. I NEVER care about fight scenes. Pretty much EVER. But watching him biff all those security guards was strangely entertaining. Alluring, even...

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