So, in order to prompt myself to post actual, like, content more often, I'm inaugurating a new series of anime/manga reviews, with a particular analytical viewpoint
( Read more... )
here via metafandomgreeneyedladyJuly 7 2007, 14:38:53 UTC
As mentioned above, Bleach focuses relatively little attention on developing relationships. Therefore, most characters' sexualities are left undeveloped--the only exception being Chizuru, who is, quite interestingly, a self-proclaimed lesbian. The series does not have many homophobic overtones (unlike much entertainment geared towards teen male), and is quite friendly to alternate interpretations.
I would say that while Bleach doesn't focus a lot of attention on developing romantic relationships, it does show developing feelings characters have for each other, albeit in an often subtle way. The characters' feelings often appear one-sided (for now) and more implicit than explicit. It is quite explicit that Orihime loves Ichigo, while Ishida's feelings for Orihime are more subtextual. Renji has strong feelings for Rukia, but the exact nature of them is not stated outright. Kira might like Hinamori, but she only has eyes for Aizen...
I think this subtle handling of feelings is one of the things that makes Bleach so engaging. It makes the characters seem more complex and more mature. The subtlety and subtextual nature of it, does leave room for interpretation, but I wouldn't say that there is no romantic development.
Also, I am not really sure what you mean about the homophobic overtones. A lot of shounen manga have girl/girl innuendo like Bleach does.
Re: here via metafandomthenakedcatJuly 7 2007, 15:02:32 UTC
I did not claim that romantic feelings are completely undeveloped, but rather that they are not a primary focus, and that sexualities are left undefined. I am also not claiming that it is a bad feature of the series, only that it makes many details subject to interpretation.
Yes, there are some romantic feelings developed in the series (although far less than in shoujo series or more adult-oriented manga), including Orihime's crush on Ichigo, but Chizuru is still the only character for whom we have a sexuality. Orihime could very easily have a crush on Ichigo, and still identify as a lesbian.
As for homophobic overtones, other shonen series, or other forms of media geared towards a young male audience, often treat gay or lesbian behavior as a threat. Bleach does include a fair bit of lesbian innuendo and subtext, but it's relatively free of paranoia about it.
Re: here via metafandomgreeneyedladyJuly 7 2007, 15:25:37 UTC
Well, I think very few series explicitly have the characters declare their sexuality outright. It's something the reader picks up from their behavior.
Girl/girl stuff in shounen manga is usually not treated with paranoia as it's there for titillating a male audience. Some shounen manga treat male/male stuff in a joking way, but I wouldn't call it homophobic. It's just the way a lot of young boys act before they can handle it like adults. Bleach doesn't have many jokes about guy/guy stuff, but it also doesn't have much of the intense male friendships that are so often misinterpreted by female fans in other shounen manga.
Re: here via metafandom7owti5July 8 2007, 04:11:22 UTC
2 points:
1. it also doesn't have much of the intense male friendships that are so often misinterpreted by female fans in other shounen manga.
Hm. So in your first post, you talked about subtle subtext and such. I agree with that, and enjoy that aspect of Bleach. However, how is Aizen/Momo any more canon/obvious than, say, Ukitake/Kyouraku? For all we know, Aizen/Momo is a father/daughter relationship, and Ukitake/Jyuushiro are just really good friends. In this way, all pairings and no pairings are confirmed in Bleach. (not counting the one-sided Orihime -> Ichigo and Chizuru -> Orihime) So, can anyone but Kubo say what is being misinterpreted?
1. I wouldn't call it homophobic. It's just the way a lot of young boys act before they can handle it like adults.
OK exactly HOW is this not homophobic? Tell me, what's the acceptable age for prejudice?
Re: here via metafandomgreeneyedladyJuly 8 2007, 13:36:15 UTC
You're right, I don't have the authority to say what is or isn't a misinterpretation. I guess I just got snippy because I am sick all the slashers with their OMGTHEIRLOVEISSOCANON!!!! shit.
I have never seen a joke in a shounen manga that seemed intentionally hateful or offensive to homosexuals.
I really don't feel like fighting though, so could we just drop the whole thing?
Re: here via metafandom7owti5July 8 2007, 15:19:27 UTC
I've got no desire to fight, either.
Your posts seemed very thorough and well-written, so I responded because I felt you deserved not to be dismissed, for your efforts. At any rate, even if it's not your thing, there's no point in holding slashers/ slash couples to any higher scrutiny than het ones, right?
Re: here via metafandomgreeneyedladyJuly 8 2007, 15:32:16 UTC
Just to wrap things up. I certainly never meant to sound standoffish or hurt anyone's feelings (which is how I sometimes come off in comments). I do acknowledge that all fanfiction and fanart is equally fanon no matter what the pairing. And as long as we all like Bleach, we have that common ground.
Oh, and for the record, even though I think the gay jokes in some manga are basically innocuous, I am happy that Bleach doesn't have them. It makes the series seem so much more mature. Thanks for being so polite to me. Peace back at you!
I would say that while Bleach doesn't focus a lot of attention on developing romantic relationships, it does show developing feelings characters have for each other, albeit in an often subtle way. The characters' feelings often appear one-sided (for now) and more implicit than explicit. It is quite explicit that Orihime loves Ichigo, while Ishida's feelings for Orihime are more subtextual. Renji has strong feelings for Rukia, but the exact nature of them is not stated outright. Kira might like Hinamori, but she only has eyes for Aizen...
I think this subtle handling of feelings is one of the things that makes Bleach so engaging. It makes the characters seem more complex and more mature. The subtlety and subtextual nature of it, does leave room for interpretation, but I wouldn't say that there is no romantic development.
Also, I am not really sure what you mean about the homophobic overtones. A lot of shounen manga have girl/girl innuendo like Bleach does.
Reply
Yes, there are some romantic feelings developed in the series (although far less than in shoujo series or more adult-oriented manga), including Orihime's crush on Ichigo, but Chizuru is still the only character for whom we have a sexuality. Orihime could very easily have a crush on Ichigo, and still identify as a lesbian.
As for homophobic overtones, other shonen series, or other forms of media geared towards a young male audience, often treat gay or lesbian behavior as a threat. Bleach does include a fair bit of lesbian innuendo and subtext, but it's relatively free of paranoia about it.
Reply
Girl/girl stuff in shounen manga is usually not treated with paranoia as it's there for titillating a male audience. Some shounen manga treat male/male stuff in a joking way, but I wouldn't call it homophobic. It's just the way a lot of young boys act before they can handle it like adults. Bleach doesn't have many jokes about guy/guy stuff, but it also doesn't have much of the intense male friendships that are so often misinterpreted by female fans in other shounen manga.
Reply
1. it also doesn't have much of the intense male friendships that are so often misinterpreted by female fans in other shounen manga.
Hm. So in your first post, you talked about subtle subtext and such. I agree with that, and enjoy that aspect of Bleach. However, how is Aizen/Momo any more canon/obvious than, say, Ukitake/Kyouraku? For all we know, Aizen/Momo is a father/daughter relationship, and Ukitake/Jyuushiro are just really good friends. In this way, all pairings and no pairings are confirmed in Bleach. (not counting the one-sided Orihime -> Ichigo and Chizuru -> Orihime) So, can anyone but Kubo say what is being misinterpreted?
1. I wouldn't call it homophobic. It's just the way a lot of young boys act before they can handle it like adults.
OK exactly HOW is this not homophobic? Tell me, what's the acceptable age for prejudice?
Reply
I have never seen a joke in a shounen manga that seemed intentionally hateful or offensive to homosexuals.
I really don't feel like fighting though, so could we just drop the whole thing?
Reply
Your posts seemed very thorough and well-written, so I responded because I felt you deserved not to be dismissed, for your efforts. At any rate, even if it's not your thing, there's no point in holding slashers/ slash couples to any higher scrutiny than het ones, right?
Anyway -- peace out!
Reply
Oh, and for the record, even though I think the gay jokes in some manga are basically innocuous, I am happy that Bleach doesn't have them. It makes the series seem so much more mature. Thanks for being so polite to me. Peace back at you!
Reply
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