Oh ... grr. ARGH.
Or, How I Pissed Off My Entire FList (Except One And I Know Who You Are)
Yeah, so ... I saw The Avengers. Um. It was ... okay, mostly ( Read more... )
Yeah, so ... I saw The Avengers. Um. It was ... okay, mostly ( Read more... )
I have lived for decades with that little problem for the guy whom 99% of the universe thinks is God as a director.
Oh, that's interesting. I haven't seen ET, in fact (I know, I know - I haven't seen all of Ghostbusters, either, and I can't seem to convince anyone that this is not a major life failing), but I've never really responded to any of Spielberg's movies (apart from Last Crusade, and I think that had as much to do with Sean Connery as anything). And apart from Aliens and T2, Cameron has been as much a deterrent as a draw for me. So yeah, I hear you - once a storyteller has lost your trust, it's nigh-impossible for them to win it back again. (Unfortunately, I've been increasingly cautious with Whedon for some time now. I went into this ignoring that and hoping it wouldn't be a problem, but, well. :/)
Joss wrote is as a sequel, as a culmination of the story built slowly in the other movies.... It makes a difference.
Okay, well ... that's interesting. I appreciate the perspective, and the urging, and understand why you do so. (I also hope your sister does take your advice and benefits from it!) Unfortunately, there are a few factors which makes it problematic for me specifically, if no one else. One factor is about principle (which I recognise not everyone shares), one factor a personal quirk, and the last is specific to the movie.
Without a whole dissertation (unless you want me to get into it, but for the moment I won't spam you any more than I already am), the principle that I personally support being that, regardless of the number of previous sources the story references/builds on, it still needs to stand on its own merits as a story. And if it can't, it's not a story. Which is actually not quite the point of the issues I'm having with this movie (because it does work as a story in itself), but it's the first problem I have when there is prerequisite viewing to not just enhance but to actually enjoy a movie.
The personal quirk is that I actually love working out what I don't know from what's on the screen. My favourite, funnest way to watch a movie has consistently been stumbling on one on tv, at least a third of the way through and with no previous knowledge of it, and picking it up as I go along. It's far more likely to engage me than the other way around.
And specifically, I have seen the Iron Man movies, whose character threads I enjoyed, and which I saw picked up in this movie - and Tony/Iron Man was the character I was overall least satisfied with. So it might go the other way for the other characters/movies, but this instance makes the others seem less likely.
Phew! Thanks for talking with me and putting up with me. I'm sorry to be such a grouch in all this.
His job was to succeed and he clearly did that.... he had to write a script that acknowledged all the lead up solo movies and use what they brought to the table, and he definitely did.
Oh, I agree. He definitely did that. I hope I made it clear that's one of the things I acknowledge, because it wasn't a shambles (as it certainly could have been), it did do the job of getting everything where it needed to be.
Thanks again for engaging this with me! :)
Reply
the principle that I personally support being that, regardless of the number of previous sources the story references/builds on, it still needs to stand on its own merits as a story. And if it can't, it's not a story. Which is actually not quite the point of the issues I'm having with this movie (because it does work as a story in itself), but it's the first problem I have when there is prerequisite viewing to not just enhance but to actually enjoy a movie.
Not exactly what I was suggesting, though. As you say, the movie does work as a story in itself. I recommended viewing the other movies to my sis because I knew that as a discerning geek, she'd want to get the most out of it. Why not?
The other thing about this particular movie, and something I think they were trying to accomplish, however much they succeeded with each of the movies or not, was not just to make a cool action movie with great special effects, but to make a comic book movie. While there are stand alone stories in comic books, mostly comics have been doing multi-issue stories for decades. It's part of the way the genre operates.
I'd like to think you could jump into Supernatural at any point and love it, but can you imagine having someone watch 5.22, saying, if it's a good story, it should stand on it's own. Maybe true, but lord what you'd miss.... ;)
The personal quirk is that I actually love working out what I don't know from what's on the screen. My favourite, funnest way to watch a movie has consistently been stumbling on one on tv, at least a third of the way through and with no previous knowledge of it, and picking it up as I go along. It's far more likely to engage me than the other way around.
Actually I do that too fairly often, since I have cable and I'm a channel surfer. :D And I have stumbled across movies I ended up liking, and series in the middle and gotten hooked. It just seemed like you have a very high set of expectations for this movie and when that is the case, the best result might require optimum circumstances. *shrug* Not a biggie.
Nor do I expect any argument or anyone else's opinion will matter much. You didn't enjoy the movie to the extent you'd expected or hoped for. Nothing can alter that, it's a done deal. ;) And I do regret it on your behalf.
<3
Reply
Not exactly what I was suggesting, though.
Oh, okay. Sorry. I think I read the earlier statement of by not having seen those two movies, I think you might have done yourself a disservice when you saw this one. Because there were wonderful character threads established in them that were picked up in this movie, and you kind of gipped yourself of the opportunity to enjoy them as implying that it could have made a difference of whether I enjoyed the movie, not whether I would enjoy it on a deeper level. Does that make sense? Gah, the perils of internet communication, with so much less context, tone, body language, and opportunity for immediate clarification!
It just seemed like you have a very high set of expectations for this movie
I actually think more of my frustration (and disquiet) came from the fact that I didn't have high expectations. But clearly they were different in nature from mainstream fandom, because that's the only way I can account for it all. Like I said, I'm really glad for fandom that so many people DID enjoy it so much.
Nor do I expect any argument or anyone else's opinion will matter much.
Well, I'm difficult that way. I don't come up with very strong opinions often, but they're that much more stubborn for it when I do. But I really honestly do appreciate your input and perspective and patience. Your (and others') enthusiasm for the other movies have made me more likely to try to see them, and who knows. Maybe that WILL make all the difference!
(I also appreciate the conversation as someone who is fascinated by the storytelling process - when others' reactions are so wildly different from mine, when what worked and what didn't and how it read came across so differently, I love to puzzle over it and figure out why. Communication between people and cultures is so fascinating.)
Anyway. <3 again. :)
Reply
Actually I think you are the one with the patience of Job, for putting up with all my blathering. :D And here comes more.. :O
I actually think more of my frustration (and disquiet) came from the fact that I didn't have high expectations.
Orly? ;) Maybe it's a cultural thing. -->
But damnit, I paid my exorbitant ticket price, I gave up nearly three hours of my life, I kept my distance from a bunch of (probably smelly) strangers I had to sit in a darkened room with, I put my attention into the hands of Joss Whedon and his expensive spectacle and in this day and age of entertainment currency that is a damn contract. It is a contract that I will bring all these things to the table, and he will earn it.
That sounds like expectations. ;D
Are you familiar with the fate of the movie John Carter just recently? That was a sad thing. Too many folks, but most specifically, the studio itself(!) had too high expectations and just about killed what was actually a cool little sci-fi/action movie. And this is from a gal who knows the original canon well enough to nitpick the movie to death. :D
Which is really a complete side track from the current discussion. *sigh* Am prone to that.
Anything I can do to help you in your puzzling? :)
<3 for all!
Reply
Ah. See? That was actually snark. (Annoyed snark, but snark nonetheless.) My actual, honest-to-God thought as I went up to the cinema was "Well, at least this'll be fun." Which means I took the exact same expectations in as I had for watching X-Men First Class. And The Expendables. One was good, one was bad, but fun was had either way. *shrug* I'm getting a lot of fun out of discussing it with people, so I guess I owe Joss one anyway. :)
And on that note, even these comments with discovering how things scanned for people, what bothered them and what didn't, has been awesome already. It's got to the stage where the next step is to watch some of the other movies, which I honestly don't have time for right now, to try to understand the intentions and choices by the studio/producers/filmmakers etc better, what their approach has been.
- If you were so inclined, and have the time, anything you'd feel like telling me about how the other movies specifically informed your watching/enjoyment/insight into this one would be great, actually.
Reply
For some reason I've been grappling with running into other folks' lukewarm receptions to Cap, which has me in a slightly blue-ish funk at the moment. So, task accepted but maybe delayed.
:)
Reply
❤
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment