to douchebags like Kanye West last night, going on a nationally televised ===>fundraiser<=== and saying "Bush doesn't care about black people
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Respose to a responsepeeper164September 4 2005, 00:54:37 UTC
While I am not the sharpest person to try and rebut your post I will at least make a feeble attempt.
First of all, is there racism in the US? You better believe it. Is there a form of classism going on? To a degree, yes.
Kanye West got on TV for the concert and blasted President Bush for not doing enough. Since he is a black entertainer, he is only echoing what many in the black community are already saying, "Bush doesn't care about black people." I can understand why they would feel that way. Most black communities are poor and drugs and crime run ramped and for the most part they have felt that the government has turned there back on them. Now it appears that government is taking it's time in getting aid to a mainly black and poor refugee base, it just stirs up those feelings even more.
Most people in NO had no flood insurance, it was hard to come by and very expensive. Those that had it are in the upper crust (mainly) and that would make it look like the government is helping out those people more. Also government loans would be handed out faster to those who have better payment histories, this would more likely be white and upper crust.
You are fighting a war of what people perceive, this is a war that would be to tough to win. The court of public opinion has too many lawyers, too defendants and not enough evidence.
Is Bush racist? Probably no more than anyone else, I think that everyone is racist to some degree. Kanye made reference to a couple of captions of picture from NO, one showed a couple of black people that was referenced as people having looted and then there was a white couple said that they had found some food. It is understated racism and perhaps the caption writer meant nothing by it but it still stings the black community.
Would I have been looting for food? You bet (if there wasn't enough food for me and my family) but some would have looted other things to barter for food afterwards. I am putting some of my own spin on this, I know that some were taking just because another opportunity like this wouldn't come again.
I do believe that FEMA coordinates efforts in disasters of this magnitude. The problem is that people have been given false expectations. They keep being told that their will be more buses to pick them all up and there are only the same handful. No major food, medicine or water coming to sustain those left until they will be taken.
Have mistakes been made along the line? Most definitely. You are probably right that the LA governor should have had more national guard members on standby, I just don't think that they were looking for it to be anywhere near this bad.
Does society depend on the federal government too much? Yes, we have created a system that has caused us to do just that. So once again we look to the federal government to get us out of another problem but that is part of the reason why the system was built the way that it was.
John F Kennedy: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
This quote has been used a lot. It rings as true today as it did back then but the generation that we have grown up in cares more for themselves and material things than caring for their fellow man. It is sad but true.
Certainly can't accuse me of not having an opinion can ya? ;)
Re: Respose to a responsepeeper164September 4 2005, 03:17:01 UTC
I live in NC, which has a history of getting hit hard by hurricanes. The anarchy and amount of confusion has never happened in NC, simply because the state has a handle on it. We've never had a disaster this great before, no, but we've had towns practically leveled, and the state jumps in with National Guard, and THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY and the people of our state band together rather than free-for-alling and shooting at the people who are coming to help. FEMA does a good job; NC can attest to that. I firmly believe a great majority of this disaster can be blamed on the lack of leadership at the state and local lever.
Re: Respose to a responsethemarklarSeptember 4 2005, 05:29:16 UTC
Thanks for this well thought response Roy.
One thing I wanted to mention regarding the deal Kanye West referenced about the AP photos and the captions underneath. Everything I'm referencing can be found at snopes here:
(regarding the picture of the black people) Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."
&
(regarding the picture of the white people)
The photographer who took the Getty/AFP picture, Chris Graythen, also posted the reasons behind his caption:
""I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow.""
So it would appear that it was nothing more than these individual photographers being honest about what they truly saw.
Now, with all of that being said and clarified, there is plenty for me to concede. One, that racism does indeed exist. No doubt about it. I also think it's really honest of you to admit that there is a 'little' bit of racism in everybody. To that, I also agree. For me, the way I view it or see it, it's part of the 'condition' of man, the sin nature if you will.
I guess it varies, depending upon the person. I try my best to never have any ill feelings or views of somebody that is not the same color of skin as me for that sole reason alone, to do so would be ....just....stupid. Does that mean I never have? No. Everybody has at some point. I see racism as just yet another way mankind kind of looks to try and prop itself up as being 'better' than somebody else, and however somebody came up with the reason that because the other person is a different color makes them 'not as good' baffles me. But it stuck somehow. Quite unfortunate.
First of all, is there racism in the US? You better believe it. Is there a form of classism going on? To a degree, yes.
Kanye West got on TV for the concert and blasted President Bush for not doing enough. Since he is a black entertainer, he is only echoing what many in the black community are already saying, "Bush doesn't care about black people." I can understand why they would feel that way. Most black communities are poor and drugs and crime run ramped and for the most part they have felt that the government has turned there back on them. Now it appears that government is taking it's time in getting aid to a mainly black and poor refugee base, it just stirs up those feelings even more.
Most people in NO had no flood insurance, it was hard to come by and very expensive. Those that had it are in the upper crust (mainly) and that would make it look like the government is helping out those people more. Also government loans would be handed out faster to those who have better payment histories, this would more likely be white and upper crust.
You are fighting a war of what people perceive, this is a war that would be to tough to win. The court of public opinion has too many lawyers, too defendants and not enough evidence.
Is Bush racist? Probably no more than anyone else, I think that everyone is racist to some degree. Kanye made reference to a couple of captions of picture from NO, one showed a couple of black people that was referenced as people having looted and then there was a white couple said that they had found some food. It is understated racism and perhaps the caption writer meant nothing by it but it still stings the black community.
Would I have been looting for food? You bet (if there wasn't enough food for me and my family) but some would have looted other things to barter for food afterwards. I am putting some of my own spin on this, I know that some were taking just because another opportunity like this wouldn't come again.
I do believe that FEMA coordinates efforts in disasters of this magnitude. The problem is that people have been given false expectations. They keep being told that their will be more buses to pick them all up and there are only the same handful. No major food, medicine or water coming to sustain those left until they will be taken.
Have mistakes been made along the line? Most definitely. You are probably right that the LA governor should have had more national guard members on standby, I just don't think that they were looking for it to be anywhere near this bad.
Does society depend on the federal government too much? Yes, we have created a system that has caused us to do just that. So once again we look to the federal government to get us out of another problem but that is part of the reason why the system was built the way that it was.
John F Kennedy:
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
This quote has been used a lot. It rings as true today as it did back then but the generation that we have grown up in cares more for themselves and material things than caring for their fellow man. It is sad but true.
Certainly can't accuse me of not having an opinion can ya? ;)
We never have....
Love ya bro.
Reply
Thomas
Servus Dei ><>
www.xanga.com/sierraalpine
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One thing I wanted to mention regarding the deal Kanye West referenced about the AP photos and the captions underneath. Everything I'm referencing can be found at snopes here:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp
Here's a couple things from it.
(regarding the picture of the black people)
Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that [photographer Dave] Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."
&
(regarding the picture of the white people)
The photographer who took the Getty/AFP picture, Chris Graythen, also posted the reasons behind his caption:
""I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow.""
So it would appear that it was nothing more than these individual photographers being honest about what they truly saw.
Now, with all of that being said and clarified, there is plenty for me to concede. One, that racism does indeed exist. No doubt about it. I also think it's really honest of you to admit that there is a 'little' bit of racism in everybody. To that, I also agree. For me, the way I view it or see it, it's part of the 'condition' of man, the sin nature if you will.
I guess it varies, depending upon the person. I try my best to never have any ill feelings or views of somebody that is not the same color of skin as me for that sole reason alone, to do so would be ....just....stupid. Does that mean I never have? No. Everybody has at some point. I see racism as just yet another way mankind kind of looks to try and prop itself up as being 'better' than somebody else, and however somebody came up with the reason that because the other person is a different color makes them 'not as good' baffles me. But it stuck somehow. Quite unfortunate.
Love you too bro.
Reply
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