language
Thoughts on language, triggered by lizw's responses to the FridayFive community's questions (testing how to do links: may not work)
1. Did your school system require you to take foreign language credits to graduate? What languages were offered, and what did you choose? Did you keep up your skills in that language after you left school? Also, if English is not your first language, what is, and what does your family speak at home?
No, but I was at private schools which had their own requirements. Age 9, started French with teacher who knew no French. Age 10, expat school, got taught in French and wasn't allowed to speak English (in a British school...), learnt nothing. Age 11, new school, started French again, loved it. Had to do French then with a useless teacher until age 15 (choosing GCSE options), but it was strongly pressured upon us (I was one of 4 out of 80 in my year who quit). You had to do 1 modern foreign lang for GCSE (age 16 exams), so I did German. You started German, Spanish, or Ancient Greek age 14, and by the end of that year I knew more German than French!
We started Latin age 12 but I didnt do it for GCSE so only had 2 years of it.
For A-level (final 2 years of school after GCSE) I did German as one of my four subjects. I wanted to work in Germany for a year before going to uni but my workplace was closed down. Since then I've only been there once (and Frankfurt airport many times) so that's been 8 years since producing more than a few German phrases.
I can still read and understand the language pretty well, but I'm not good at understanding slang - our teacher was impeccably polite and prudish. With newspapers I understand the facts but not the subtext.
My first language is UK English, but being profoundly deaf from ages 3-8 made me feel that only written English is my native language. Actually, even now no-one talks much at home - it's a very silent place, my parents' house.
2. Language is a critical element for all communication, but some people are "languageless" - they never learned a language, or developed aphasia and have difficulty expressing themselves. How might you get by if you couldn't easily communicate with people around you?
With frustration. I've been in that situation only twice (in so many places people speak some English or I can understand some of their language) - in Azerbaijan and Japan. In Baku I was expecting it, and in any case if you have hard currency people make a huge effort for you (as long as you look like you're trying).
In Japan we did a lot of following other people and smiling and gestures, which was great for a fortnight but got tiring. For example, we could go to a restaurant and convey that we wanted food, and be given a range of prices, and point at one, and then food would appear, but never knowing what you were getting was a bit stressful. We started treating conveyor-belt sushi bars as comfort-food places because you could see what you were getting. It also helped that ripping off tourists isn't part of Japanese culture - although this was before the World Cup - I bet tourists are outstaying their welcome now!
3. Studies are showing that babies can use a form of sign language many months before they are able to speak verbally, giving them the ability to make simple requests and statements earlier than children ever have before. Some critics, though, feel that babies who learn Baby Sign will be reluctant to make the switch to speech once their vocal cords have developed. If you were the parent of an infant, would you choose to use sign language with your baby? Why or why not?
Yes, I would. My BSL isn't great but I can communicate on a basic level. Also sign linguistics is a hobby of mine. Apparently babies can start making signs between 4 and 6 months, and the earlier a baby can indicate things like hungry, hot, cold, hurt, scared the better for baby and parent, I'd have thought.
Also my hearing is still poor and I have great difficulty understanding small children, so giving the poor kid another way of talking to Gormless Mum sounds like a good idea. And it's possible that my congenital hearing loss could be hereditary and occur earlier (prelingually), in which case teaching sign is the best thing to do.
I don't see why it would be a problem with the baby learning to speak; hearing babies
of deaf parents figure it out all the time. Probably even easier than being bilingual with 2 spoken languages.
4. Over the centuries, there have been many attempts to develop a "world language" to supplement native tongues - Esperanto and Interlingua are the best-known, but there are many more. Instead of one of these becoming successful, English is becoming the world's favorite language for communication, with many people learning it as a second language. How do you feel about international languages, and would you ever consider learning one?
I wouldn't bother with an artificial language; I'd like to learn another that has more speakers than that. Arabic or Russian I think. English is becoming a world language, but probably not English as native speakers think of it. I read a sketch that described the True European Language: Bad English, and analysed the linguistic features of Bad English - only the present tense is used, the same few adjectives get overused, etc. I work in a multinational place and we're constantly sorting out communication problems that occur when people can't express subtle shades of opinion (although I'm still not convinced that a co-worker's statement "you are a terrible person" wasn't meant to be derogatory)
5. Have you ever played with language for your own purposes? Do you have any secret codes for private use or that you share with friends? If you and a friend both speak another language, have you ever used it in public so nobody will understand you, or so strangers will think you're not from the country? Would you ever consider doing any of this? Why or why not?
I like playing with words, puns, putting words into new places etc. My partner is severely dyslexic but also enjoys playing with words, but with the advantage that he will flex them even further than I would dream, because he misread the word in the first place. He sees many more funny road signs than I do.
Unfortunately English is too widely understood for speaking 'secretly'. I've never pretended not to be English (not abroad, anyway - I had to act Malay for a weekend once, which was interesting), but have often learned phrases in the local tongue for "I'm not a stupid tourist" and "I'm not American", which often mean the same thing.
One reason to speak foreign languages better is to tell off annoying tourists - I live in London. Once I tapped some German backpackers on the shoulder on the left of the escalator and said "Links gehen, rechts stehen - genau wie in Deutschland" (walk left, stand right, just like in Germany). I really wanted to say "Didn't your parents teach you any manners" but wasn't sure how to phrase it!
1. Did your school system require you to take foreign language credits to graduate? What languages were offered, and what did you choose? Did you keep up your skills in that language after you left school? Also, if English is not your first language, what is, and what does your family speak at home?
No, but I was at private schools which had their own requirements. Age 9, started French with teacher who knew no French. Age 10, expat school, got taught in French and wasn't allowed to speak English (in a British school...), learnt nothing. Age 11, new school, started French again, loved it. Had to do French then with a useless teacher until age 15 (choosing GCSE options), but it was strongly pressured upon us (I was one of 4 out of 80 in my year who quit). You had to do 1 modern foreign lang for GCSE (age 16 exams), so I did German. You started German, Spanish, or Ancient Greek age 14, and by the end of that year I knew more German than French!
We started Latin age 12 but I didnt do it for GCSE so only had 2 years of it.
For A-level (final 2 years of school after GCSE) I did German as one of my four subjects. I wanted to work in Germany for a year before going to uni but my workplace was closed down. Since then I've only been there once (and Frankfurt airport many times) so that's been 8 years since producing more than a few German phrases.
I can still read and understand the language pretty well, but I'm not good at understanding slang - our teacher was impeccably polite and prudish. With newspapers I understand the facts but not the subtext.
My first language is UK English, but being profoundly deaf from ages 3-8 made me feel that only written English is my native language. Actually, even now no-one talks much at home - it's a very silent place, my parents' house.
2. Language is a critical element for all communication, but some people are "languageless" - they never learned a language, or developed aphasia and have difficulty expressing themselves. How might you get by if you couldn't easily communicate with people around you?
With frustration. I've been in that situation only twice (in so many places people speak some English or I can understand some of their language) - in Azerbaijan and Japan. In Baku I was expecting it, and in any case if you have hard currency people make a huge effort for you (as long as you look like you're trying).
In Japan we did a lot of following other people and smiling and gestures, which was great for a fortnight but got tiring. For example, we could go to a restaurant and convey that we wanted food, and be given a range of prices, and point at one, and then food would appear, but never knowing what you were getting was a bit stressful. We started treating conveyor-belt sushi bars as comfort-food places because you could see what you were getting. It also helped that ripping off tourists isn't part of Japanese culture - although this was before the World Cup - I bet tourists are outstaying their welcome now!
3. Studies are showing that babies can use a form of sign language many months before they are able to speak verbally, giving them the ability to make simple requests and statements earlier than children ever have before. Some critics, though, feel that babies who learn Baby Sign will be reluctant to make the switch to speech once their vocal cords have developed. If you were the parent of an infant, would you choose to use sign language with your baby? Why or why not?
Yes, I would. My BSL isn't great but I can communicate on a basic level. Also sign linguistics is a hobby of mine. Apparently babies can start making signs between 4 and 6 months, and the earlier a baby can indicate things like hungry, hot, cold, hurt, scared the better for baby and parent, I'd have thought.
Also my hearing is still poor and I have great difficulty understanding small children, so giving the poor kid another way of talking to Gormless Mum sounds like a good idea. And it's possible that my congenital hearing loss could be hereditary and occur earlier (prelingually), in which case teaching sign is the best thing to do.
I don't see why it would be a problem with the baby learning to speak; hearing babies
of deaf parents figure it out all the time. Probably even easier than being bilingual with 2 spoken languages.
4. Over the centuries, there have been many attempts to develop a "world language" to supplement native tongues - Esperanto and Interlingua are the best-known, but there are many more. Instead of one of these becoming successful, English is becoming the world's favorite language for communication, with many people learning it as a second language. How do you feel about international languages, and would you ever consider learning one?
I wouldn't bother with an artificial language; I'd like to learn another that has more speakers than that. Arabic or Russian I think. English is becoming a world language, but probably not English as native speakers think of it. I read a sketch that described the True European Language: Bad English, and analysed the linguistic features of Bad English - only the present tense is used, the same few adjectives get overused, etc. I work in a multinational place and we're constantly sorting out communication problems that occur when people can't express subtle shades of opinion (although I'm still not convinced that a co-worker's statement "you are a terrible person" wasn't meant to be derogatory)
5. Have you ever played with language for your own purposes? Do you have any secret codes for private use or that you share with friends? If you and a friend both speak another language, have you ever used it in public so nobody will understand you, or so strangers will think you're not from the country? Would you ever consider doing any of this? Why or why not?
I like playing with words, puns, putting words into new places etc. My partner is severely dyslexic but also enjoys playing with words, but with the advantage that he will flex them even further than I would dream, because he misread the word in the first place. He sees many more funny road signs than I do.
Unfortunately English is too widely understood for speaking 'secretly'. I've never pretended not to be English (not abroad, anyway - I had to act Malay for a weekend once, which was interesting), but have often learned phrases in the local tongue for "I'm not a stupid tourist" and "I'm not American", which often mean the same thing.
One reason to speak foreign languages better is to tell off annoying tourists - I live in London. Once I tapped some German backpackers on the shoulder on the left of the escalator and said "Links gehen, rechts stehen - genau wie in Deutschland" (walk left, stand right, just like in Germany). I really wanted to say "Didn't your parents teach you any manners" but wasn't sure how to phrase it!