Gay rights? i'm greatly confused
This conversation was on my facebook in a response to a posted picture of a fake letter
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet see i have "openly gay students" at the school i work who walk around in making and earrings and bras, then when they get made fun of start yelling at the ppl doing it that their homophobic and hate gay ppl and judging them....IF YOU WANT TO BE GAY BE GAY, BUT IF YOUR GOING TO DRESS FLAMBOYANTLY EXPECT TO BE TEASED....there's no reason to come to school dressed that way
2 hours ago · Like
Yvonne Ivy ^^^ I think the lesson her would be, worry about what you wear and not what others are doing... Teasing for any reason is wrong, because 99.9% of the time it really falls into the category of:"none of your darn beeswax"
2 hours ago · Like · 1
Amber Green Teasing someone for what they're wearing, no matter the reason, is bullshit, Fraggle. People can wear what they like. And actually, your openly gay students have it right. The rest of them are being close minded, judgmental and exceptionally homophobic. And I'll even move forward and say, so are you. It doesn't matter what someone's wearing. They're a person. Treat them like it, and quit being superficial.
about an hour ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet but you can't wear something and get mad that ppl are reacting to it....in fact i'll be forward in sating they are wearing it bc they want the reaction....they are choosing to wear something they know will piss ppl off...you can say that bullshit about ppl should have the freedom to wear what they want all you want, but we have a school uniform for one, for two there is a time and place for wearing certain clothes.....i'm not going to wear my goth clothes to a job interview....this is the point i'm making.....and just because your gay does not mean you have to dress in a belly shirt, walk on your tippee toes, and have your hand bent .....you choose to do this for the reaction you get, just like i chose the piercing, torn up safety pin jeans and big trench coat for a reason....this gas nothing to do with freedom of speech its high school ....your spouting bull shit....i'm not defending the bully....there's a difference between being openly gay and flamboyant....i'm the first person to give a homophobes shit for picking on a gay guy since most of them are afraid of "the gays" because they think their going to force themselves upon them because they think if their near a gay guy they can't help but hump everything.... i tell them if a girl won't talk to you why do you think a gay guy can't control themselves around you.....seriously....my whole fucking point is, don't be surprised when you get teased when you dress differently than the norm.....i will defend that kid's right to dress what ever way he wants.....but read my words....kids are cruel and its going to happen.....don't go crying hate crimes when kids are doing wgat they do....welcome to reality....do you where your goth clothes to job interviews?
59 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz Just putting this out there: There are no laws requiring you to be at a job interview. This is not true of a High School.
51 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet how is that relevant...a child could be home schooled or transfer schools too, as examples of not being at high school and we have students that never show up but are not removed from the roster.....the law does not require you to go to a job interview but try getting by in life without having a job....your argument is invalid
46 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz It is relevant because you compare how one dresses in an environment in which they are legally required to be to how one dresses in an environment which they are not only voluntarily participating, they are entering the situation with the xpress goal of gaining acceptance from the other or others in the environment. YOUR argument is invalid.
41 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet so your saying because your legally obligated to be there it should be illegal for children to pick on each other for what their wearing?
39 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz No, I am saying that your comparison between a job interview and a high school is an invalid comparison. But thanks for those words you put in my mouth, they were delicious.
36 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Amber Green There are more reasons than I can state why a gay man would choose to be flamboyant, and most of them have to do with identity, not with attention seeking. If they identify differently than you and others would like them to? That's on your narrow viewed ass, not on theirs. You have a problem because they want to dress in a way that doesn't conform to -your- standards. To -your- demands of what they should be. You're the problem, not those kids.
If they were dressed goth, you wouldn't say a damn thing. Why? Because you dress goth when you're able. You have a problem because they aren't wearing things that align with your gender rules and your viewpoints on "what boys should wear". Obviously, they must be doing it to offend your poor self. They're absolutely doing it for no other reason than to gain negative attention.
Or...how about we try a viewpoint that removes Fraggle's ego? These kids are looking for support and encouragement as they try and decide who and what they are. And that's you're fucking job as an educator and a goddamn adult. It's not to be the flamboyant police or the fag basher. You're setting a bad example for the children you teach, and -you're- the fucking problem.
24 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet my comparison is valid since i am saying there is a place and time to wear different clothing....high school is supposed to be a professional setting which is why your not supposed to swear or fight and your supposed to be respectful to each other...the point to high school is that being a student is supposed to be a child's job, they are learning social skills and when and where to dress different ways....how they act in a classroom is different from how they act with your friends....etc, etc.....but way to try getting petty and saying i'm putting words in your mouth since i was simply restating what you said....and of course its always fun to turn things into personal attacks and pick apart "meaning" when one's argument was wrong and they just want to say "but thats not what i meant....your putting words in my mouth...." my continued point is you can not get mad at people for reacting to the way you dress when you dress outside the norm....and you can't be surprised when kids pick on other kids for being different....whether your legally obligated to be there or not holds no significance to my point
24 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz High school literally could not possibly be less of a professional setting. Also, you did not restate what I said. I said high school is not a job interview because you are not required to be at a job interview, you said "so you're saying it should be illegal for children to pick on each other for what they're wearing." Restating implies that your statement will bear some similarity in meaning to the original statement. Yours did not.
11 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet Amber Green your making a lot of assumptions here....i said i support students that want to dress differently.....i defend them from students when they are being picked on....i'm always on their side no matter how they dress....i'm always behind them, i think they should be able to where what they want and i tell all my students my classroom is a safe place, i don't allow teasing of any kind....i'm talking about human nature here, i'm not going around picking on students for dressing differently flamboyant or goth or whatever, i will jump in and stop anyone from picking on these kids that want to dress that way, but my point ....yet again....before you start resorting to personal attacks against me....is that kids are going to pick on each other no matter what.....so kids should not be shocked when they get picked on for dressing and acting differently....its what kids do....apparently you have not gotten to the point yet where you can see a situation from the outside....and no after years of going to pride parades.....having best friends who are gay .....students who are gay....and a gay parent.....at no point have i ever seen a reason why being gay causes flamboyance....that part is a choice....whatever the reason....when you dress or act that way people are going to react
11 minutes ago · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet And David Goerz is at the point of picking apart grammar and i'm assuming this is all going to digress to personal attacks on me with no actual basis because no one wants to admit that they overreacted to a simple point i was making which is kids are going to pick on each other for being different and should not be shocked when they dress differently and are picked on....that was my whole point.....being legally bound to be there or whether its right was not in question....of course its wrong to pick on someone for being different....their not my ideas of how they should dress.....and just because high school is not actually a professionally setting IT IS what is being taught to students when they come in the door so that is how it is treated
3 minutes ago · Like
Amber Green You're arguing what is. I'm telling you why it is, and what it should be. Kids don't do these things and pick on one another because "it's human nature". They -learn- this behavior and these viewpoints. They learn to be bigoted and judgmental from the adults around them. Me personally? I'd like to give the kids a way to change the world around them. One of those ways is to stop teaching them how to hate and what to hate. Stop teaching them that being cruel to someone who's different is acceptable. Teach them to abhor that cruelty and to see someone as a human like them. I will not excuse these kids as being "just kids". They can learn. We need to take responsibility for that, and teach them empathy and compassion, rather than hatred and the idea that they're better.
David Goerz I have neither made personal attacks against you, nor picked apart your grammar. Although, if you'd like me to, I would be happy to.
about a minute ago via mobile · Like
Charles Eby Just because something is a way doesn't mean it should be that way.
Aww Charles was trying to making a genius catchy statement that would sum everything up succinctly and failed miserably.....was it my fault for trying to give ppl a lesson in human nature who don't actually know how human nature works....kids picking on each other is not learned behavior it is a step in child psychology
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet see i have "openly gay students" at the school i work who walk around in making and earrings and bras, then when they get made fun of start yelling at the ppl doing it that their homophobic and hate gay ppl and judging them....IF YOU WANT TO BE GAY BE GAY, BUT IF YOUR GOING TO DRESS FLAMBOYANTLY EXPECT TO BE TEASED....there's no reason to come to school dressed that way
2 hours ago · Like
Yvonne Ivy ^^^ I think the lesson her would be, worry about what you wear and not what others are doing... Teasing for any reason is wrong, because 99.9% of the time it really falls into the category of:"none of your darn beeswax"
2 hours ago · Like · 1
Amber Green Teasing someone for what they're wearing, no matter the reason, is bullshit, Fraggle. People can wear what they like. And actually, your openly gay students have it right. The rest of them are being close minded, judgmental and exceptionally homophobic. And I'll even move forward and say, so are you. It doesn't matter what someone's wearing. They're a person. Treat them like it, and quit being superficial.
about an hour ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet but you can't wear something and get mad that ppl are reacting to it....in fact i'll be forward in sating they are wearing it bc they want the reaction....they are choosing to wear something they know will piss ppl off...you can say that bullshit about ppl should have the freedom to wear what they want all you want, but we have a school uniform for one, for two there is a time and place for wearing certain clothes.....i'm not going to wear my goth clothes to a job interview....this is the point i'm making.....and just because your gay does not mean you have to dress in a belly shirt, walk on your tippee toes, and have your hand bent .....you choose to do this for the reaction you get, just like i chose the piercing, torn up safety pin jeans and big trench coat for a reason....this gas nothing to do with freedom of speech its high school ....your spouting bull shit....i'm not defending the bully....there's a difference between being openly gay and flamboyant....i'm the first person to give a homophobes shit for picking on a gay guy since most of them are afraid of "the gays" because they think their going to force themselves upon them because they think if their near a gay guy they can't help but hump everything.... i tell them if a girl won't talk to you why do you think a gay guy can't control themselves around you.....seriously....my whole fucking point is, don't be surprised when you get teased when you dress differently than the norm.....i will defend that kid's right to dress what ever way he wants.....but read my words....kids are cruel and its going to happen.....don't go crying hate crimes when kids are doing wgat they do....welcome to reality....do you where your goth clothes to job interviews?
59 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz Just putting this out there: There are no laws requiring you to be at a job interview. This is not true of a High School.
51 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet how is that relevant...a child could be home schooled or transfer schools too, as examples of not being at high school and we have students that never show up but are not removed from the roster.....the law does not require you to go to a job interview but try getting by in life without having a job....your argument is invalid
46 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz It is relevant because you compare how one dresses in an environment in which they are legally required to be to how one dresses in an environment which they are not only voluntarily participating, they are entering the situation with the xpress goal of gaining acceptance from the other or others in the environment. YOUR argument is invalid.
41 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet so your saying because your legally obligated to be there it should be illegal for children to pick on each other for what their wearing?
39 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz No, I am saying that your comparison between a job interview and a high school is an invalid comparison. But thanks for those words you put in my mouth, they were delicious.
36 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Amber Green There are more reasons than I can state why a gay man would choose to be flamboyant, and most of them have to do with identity, not with attention seeking. If they identify differently than you and others would like them to? That's on your narrow viewed ass, not on theirs. You have a problem because they want to dress in a way that doesn't conform to -your- standards. To -your- demands of what they should be. You're the problem, not those kids.
If they were dressed goth, you wouldn't say a damn thing. Why? Because you dress goth when you're able. You have a problem because they aren't wearing things that align with your gender rules and your viewpoints on "what boys should wear". Obviously, they must be doing it to offend your poor self. They're absolutely doing it for no other reason than to gain negative attention.
Or...how about we try a viewpoint that removes Fraggle's ego? These kids are looking for support and encouragement as they try and decide who and what they are. And that's you're fucking job as an educator and a goddamn adult. It's not to be the flamboyant police or the fag basher. You're setting a bad example for the children you teach, and -you're- the fucking problem.
24 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet my comparison is valid since i am saying there is a place and time to wear different clothing....high school is supposed to be a professional setting which is why your not supposed to swear or fight and your supposed to be respectful to each other...the point to high school is that being a student is supposed to be a child's job, they are learning social skills and when and where to dress different ways....how they act in a classroom is different from how they act with your friends....etc, etc.....but way to try getting petty and saying i'm putting words in your mouth since i was simply restating what you said....and of course its always fun to turn things into personal attacks and pick apart "meaning" when one's argument was wrong and they just want to say "but thats not what i meant....your putting words in my mouth...." my continued point is you can not get mad at people for reacting to the way you dress when you dress outside the norm....and you can't be surprised when kids pick on other kids for being different....whether your legally obligated to be there or not holds no significance to my point
24 minutes ago · Like
David Goerz High school literally could not possibly be less of a professional setting. Also, you did not restate what I said. I said high school is not a job interview because you are not required to be at a job interview, you said "so you're saying it should be illegal for children to pick on each other for what they're wearing." Restating implies that your statement will bear some similarity in meaning to the original statement. Yours did not.
11 minutes ago via mobile · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet Amber Green your making a lot of assumptions here....i said i support students that want to dress differently.....i defend them from students when they are being picked on....i'm always on their side no matter how they dress....i'm always behind them, i think they should be able to where what they want and i tell all my students my classroom is a safe place, i don't allow teasing of any kind....i'm talking about human nature here, i'm not going around picking on students for dressing differently flamboyant or goth or whatever, i will jump in and stop anyone from picking on these kids that want to dress that way, but my point ....yet again....before you start resorting to personal attacks against me....is that kids are going to pick on each other no matter what.....so kids should not be shocked when they get picked on for dressing and acting differently....its what kids do....apparently you have not gotten to the point yet where you can see a situation from the outside....and no after years of going to pride parades.....having best friends who are gay .....students who are gay....and a gay parent.....at no point have i ever seen a reason why being gay causes flamboyance....that part is a choice....whatever the reason....when you dress or act that way people are going to react
11 minutes ago · Like
Fraggle Thedarkmuppet And David Goerz is at the point of picking apart grammar and i'm assuming this is all going to digress to personal attacks on me with no actual basis because no one wants to admit that they overreacted to a simple point i was making which is kids are going to pick on each other for being different and should not be shocked when they dress differently and are picked on....that was my whole point.....being legally bound to be there or whether its right was not in question....of course its wrong to pick on someone for being different....their not my ideas of how they should dress.....and just because high school is not actually a professionally setting IT IS what is being taught to students when they come in the door so that is how it is treated
3 minutes ago · Like
Amber Green You're arguing what is. I'm telling you why it is, and what it should be. Kids don't do these things and pick on one another because "it's human nature". They -learn- this behavior and these viewpoints. They learn to be bigoted and judgmental from the adults around them. Me personally? I'd like to give the kids a way to change the world around them. One of those ways is to stop teaching them how to hate and what to hate. Stop teaching them that being cruel to someone who's different is acceptable. Teach them to abhor that cruelty and to see someone as a human like them. I will not excuse these kids as being "just kids". They can learn. We need to take responsibility for that, and teach them empathy and compassion, rather than hatred and the idea that they're better.
David Goerz I have neither made personal attacks against you, nor picked apart your grammar. Although, if you'd like me to, I would be happy to.
about a minute ago via mobile · Like
Charles Eby Just because something is a way doesn't mean it should be that way.
Aww Charles was trying to making a genius catchy statement that would sum everything up succinctly and failed miserably.....was it my fault for trying to give ppl a lesson in human nature who don't actually know how human nature works....kids picking on each other is not learned behavior it is a step in child psychology