The question of forever....
Ok ok... so I am faced with writing a paper on the notion of the continuation of the immaterial mind/soul after the death of the body. I wasn't going to put all this here yet... I haven't firmly decided what I believe myself at this point.. but writing it all here helps me to get it in some sort of order in my head, and all of your idea's are food for thought too... so...
It is to be pre-supposed that the mind and the soul are the same thing... as in philosophy this is said to be the case. The important thing here is that both are immaterial entities.
The first thing I am considering is the well known philosophical principal of Rene Descartes "Cogito Ergo Sum" or "I think, Therefore I am". I am also going to subscribe to the semi-dualist philosophy that "I" am my mind; that without my mind (thoughts, memories, emotions, ect), there would be no "Me" (This alone has been debated for eons). So, I come to think that:
If: I think, therefore I am;
and
If: "I" am my mind;
then assuming that: A mind can think only when it has a brain in which to do so;
Just like: A driver can drive only if they have a car in which to do so;
Then...
When my brain siezes to work, I cannot think.
And being that: I think, therefore I am,
Therefore: I cannot think, therefore I am not.
PLUS
The brain is part of the physical body;
So, When the physical body is dead, the brain must be dead.
THEREFORE
When my brain is dead I cannot think, therefore I am not, and if I am not after the death of the physical body then... "I" do not continue after the death of the physical body.
NOW: This brings up a couple of problems (problems with my own theory I freely admit):
Firstly: Can a mind only think if it has a brain to think with?? (perhaps for simplicity think of the brain as a tool for thought).
Secondly: Does thought exist if it cannot be expressed or rationalised or acted apon or have a causal effect of some kind? (Similar to the question "If a tree falls in the forrest and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?") If it does not, then by the very nature of the thought not existing, one would think that the mind CANNOT produce thoughts unless it has the use of a brain in which to do so.
So...
IF: Thinking is a necessity for 'being'...
then a mind would have to be able to THINK without a brain to exist after bodily death.
So it seems to me that this is the fundamental principal behind deciding whether a mind CAN continue to exist after the death of a body ... whether any of us continue to exist after bodily death.
Now another factor that brings me to wonder if in fact a mind CAN think, therefore exist, after bodily death is the recounting by people I trust explicitly of experiences with what they believe to have been the souls of lost loved ones.
Another question posed is : can people have 'out of body' experiences where their mind leaves their brain and still 'exists'. If this IS possible... is it only possible because the brain is still 'alive' and can therefore still recieve and process information from the mind from a distance. A woman in my class believes she has HAD an out of body experience.. and recounted to me that she was laying on the road in a position that made it impossible for her to see the car, however she remembers leaving her body and being able to see the entire accident scene.. before making what she believed was a conscious decision to go back to her physical body.
Has science showed that the damage of a brain also damages the ability of the mind to think? Or is it simply the case that the damage of the brain hinders the ability for the mind to communicate its 'thoughts' though they still exist? Would a living body, having had all the 'cognitiant' faculties of its brain removed, still have a mind / soul?
So....
To summarise:
*Do you guys think that a mind can think without a brain?
*Does thought that cannot be expressed or have causal effect in the world exist at all?
*Do you think the mind/soul exists after the body has died?
*Do you believe in the possibility of 'out of body experiences'?
*Am I my immaterial mind/soul, or am I my body, or am I both?
(If I am both, how is it that I wake up in the morning knowing that I am ME, even before I look in the mirror?)
and last but not least... as posed by a good friend:
*Was the bible written by 12 drunk monks?
hehe I promised to put that one in my entry somewhere :) for D!
If ANY of you are still reading, and are not 100% lost... answer away... I am excited about hearing what you think!!
(By the way, personally I believe that a soul/mind can exist after the death of the body... but this comes from my upbringing, and environmental influences... and quite possibly I am going to go the other way with my arguement.)
It is to be pre-supposed that the mind and the soul are the same thing... as in philosophy this is said to be the case. The important thing here is that both are immaterial entities.
The first thing I am considering is the well known philosophical principal of Rene Descartes "Cogito Ergo Sum" or "I think, Therefore I am". I am also going to subscribe to the semi-dualist philosophy that "I" am my mind; that without my mind (thoughts, memories, emotions, ect), there would be no "Me" (This alone has been debated for eons). So, I come to think that:
If: I think, therefore I am;
and
If: "I" am my mind;
then assuming that: A mind can think only when it has a brain in which to do so;
Just like: A driver can drive only if they have a car in which to do so;
Then...
When my brain siezes to work, I cannot think.
And being that: I think, therefore I am,
Therefore: I cannot think, therefore I am not.
PLUS
The brain is part of the physical body;
So, When the physical body is dead, the brain must be dead.
THEREFORE
When my brain is dead I cannot think, therefore I am not, and if I am not after the death of the physical body then... "I" do not continue after the death of the physical body.
NOW: This brings up a couple of problems (problems with my own theory I freely admit):
Firstly: Can a mind only think if it has a brain to think with?? (perhaps for simplicity think of the brain as a tool for thought).
Secondly: Does thought exist if it cannot be expressed or rationalised or acted apon or have a causal effect of some kind? (Similar to the question "If a tree falls in the forrest and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?") If it does not, then by the very nature of the thought not existing, one would think that the mind CANNOT produce thoughts unless it has the use of a brain in which to do so.
So...
IF: Thinking is a necessity for 'being'...
then a mind would have to be able to THINK without a brain to exist after bodily death.
So it seems to me that this is the fundamental principal behind deciding whether a mind CAN continue to exist after the death of a body ... whether any of us continue to exist after bodily death.
Now another factor that brings me to wonder if in fact a mind CAN think, therefore exist, after bodily death is the recounting by people I trust explicitly of experiences with what they believe to have been the souls of lost loved ones.
Another question posed is : can people have 'out of body' experiences where their mind leaves their brain and still 'exists'. If this IS possible... is it only possible because the brain is still 'alive' and can therefore still recieve and process information from the mind from a distance. A woman in my class believes she has HAD an out of body experience.. and recounted to me that she was laying on the road in a position that made it impossible for her to see the car, however she remembers leaving her body and being able to see the entire accident scene.. before making what she believed was a conscious decision to go back to her physical body.
Has science showed that the damage of a brain also damages the ability of the mind to think? Or is it simply the case that the damage of the brain hinders the ability for the mind to communicate its 'thoughts' though they still exist? Would a living body, having had all the 'cognitiant' faculties of its brain removed, still have a mind / soul?
So....
To summarise:
*Do you guys think that a mind can think without a brain?
*Does thought that cannot be expressed or have causal effect in the world exist at all?
*Do you think the mind/soul exists after the body has died?
*Do you believe in the possibility of 'out of body experiences'?
*Am I my immaterial mind/soul, or am I my body, or am I both?
(If I am both, how is it that I wake up in the morning knowing that I am ME, even before I look in the mirror?)
and last but not least... as posed by a good friend:
*Was the bible written by 12 drunk monks?
hehe I promised to put that one in my entry somewhere :) for D!
If ANY of you are still reading, and are not 100% lost... answer away... I am excited about hearing what you think!!
(By the way, personally I believe that a soul/mind can exist after the death of the body... but this comes from my upbringing, and environmental influences... and quite possibly I am going to go the other way with my arguement.)