You know - I don't get sport at all any more

[the_nita]

South African runner having gender verification tests

Cause you know - that she said "I'm a girl" can't have any relevance when she's so damned buff.

Again, I'm not sure I like my fellow man much most days....

Comments

[quingawaga]

Sooo, should we stop testing for steroids, then, and just accept what people say about THAT at face value

[the_nita]

Really - give the prevalence of steroids in sport nowadays and the public's apparent need for the best to constantly be shattering world records, who the hell cares?

Long run, this isn't something earthshattering - it's a damned race.

For that, we should treat someone like they're less than human?

What would you say if tomorrow your boss questioned if you were actually a girl and demanded that you undergo testing to prove it?

[zanate]

What would you say if tomorrow your boss questioned if you were actually a girl and demanded that you undergo testing to prove it?

"No."

But it's not the same thing, and that's the point.

You can argue (to good effect!) that the rules to level the playing field are outdated and ineffectual, but until such a point that they're discarded, they should be enforced.

Because discarding them (turning it into one big free-for-all) will have the same effect as not enforcing them, thus permitting anyone to participate in any classification with any enhancement: virtually every sport outside of gymnastics will become pointless to pursue at the olympic level for anyone with an XX chromosome. Sexual dimorphism gives males of our species an unfair advantage in strength and speed.

It just doesn't seem right to me.

[the_nita]

As I told Paul last night - evidently, I don't get "sports" and the mentality of people who do.

On a pure "what's worse off if we trash it", the "purity of sport" or the self-image of an 18 year old girl, given that sport hasn't been pure since before I was born, I thought it was reasonable to not isolate and humiliate her.

Evidently, I'm wrong.

Very well.

I'll go crawl back under my rock.

[quingawaga]

Enh, and now there's no point in me beating the dead horse, so I'll just shut up. :)

[the_nita]

Beat whatever you want. Participate in the humiliation of another human being as you see fit.

[quingawaga]

Yep, thanks for insinuating that I am personally humiliating that poor girl from South Africa. WTF, Nita.

For the record, I agree with you. I don't give a shit about sports and I believe that when someone tells you they're a girl, they should be taken at face value. But there is a conflict between the way I (and you) feel, and the way the world actually works, and what I can see (and you apparently can't) is that there is a set of reasons for why things work the way they do. The reasons are shitty, but they are there. If "it's just a race, who cares?" actually holds true, then we might as well cancel the Olympics and everyone go home.

Oh, and I'm sorry to hear that you and I suffered similar fates when we were younger.

[the_nita]

"But I'm sorry, the idea of "taking them at face value" at that level of competition is laughable."

That's pretty much where I assumed that you thought what was happening was fine.

[quingawaga]

No, that's not what I meant. I really don't think it's fine at all. The point I was trying to make was that it's naive to think that there won't be people who will try to game the system to get ahead if you start simply taking people at their word...and that's why we need to be disappointed in the human race.

[the_nita]

Ah. Okay - you and I still disagree. I'd rather take that risk, because sports became a whore to Sponsorship and World Records a long time ago, rather than risking destroying someone's life.

[quingawaga]

I guess I need to stop arguing from the point of view of the rest of the world because you keep mistaking it for my own viewpoint.

WE AGREE. :p I am in agreement with every word you wrote in your last comment. (Except the part where you're saying we disagree.)

But our system won't work in the Real World, because people are assholes.

Clearly I'm more cynical that you are. I manage to hide it well most days.

[the_nita]

I suspect this is a "over a beer and wings" discussion, as opposed to an electronic one, because yah - I'm missing something that lets me understand that we're in agreement, so I'm going to go with the "she says she does, so I'm going to take that".

Yah, people are assholes. But they're going to be assholes regardless of what we do to prevent them. So I don't see the point of harming a single person on the altar of keeping the assholes at bay, cause I don't think it works.

I'm cynical, just in my own way. (Paul once called himself an optimistic cynic. He refers to me as a cynical optimist).

[quingawaga]

Heh, yeah, you're right about the beer & wings thing. :)

[the_nita]

Beer & wings for all my friends!

[nobodyhere]

I don't really get sports either, but I agree wholeheartedly that if someone tells me they're of a certain gender, I'll do my best to treat and refer to them as such. I only want to see people's genitals when it's fun and consentual.

*hugs*

[the_nita]

The argument I have been presented with is that "well, sports at this level is different".

My opinion of that is that it's a load of horseshit. Evidently, I don't know what I'm talking about.