-THE END-

[the_new_zer0]

I am going to die.

I don't take care of this body that I hate and I don't share Ray Kurzweils fear and hatred of death.

If I don't wake up tomorrow it would be no tragedy to me.

Regardless, the end is important in all things.

Talking with David tonight I realized there are certain things I wish for, so I'm writing them here in my voluminous

Comments

[theonlypurpose]

I often think about the notion of death being the end, completely, and what that means. if I were to die tonight and no longer exist except in some scrambled molecular form that holds no consciousness, which I think is a pretty likely possibility, than so then do all my memories, and all the memories I had of other people that died. and of course everyone who remembered me and the important things that make moments matter will also die, and their memories will also feed the fire. eventually, all memories will cease to exist, and if something comes to not exist then, it would seem to me, that it never really existed at all. I mean, of course it existed, but what the fuck does that matter, right? if nothing is there, then there pretty much never was. "Well, the fact that it happened is what really matters..." Ha, tell that to the Abyss.

anyway, if this is the case, I can't shake the feeling that this whole life thing is really just a waste of time, and if I don't exist, than I might as well cut to the chase and not exist.

however, there is so little I truly know, and so I give this whole life thing the benefit of the doubt.

[the_new_zer0]

You should watch The Transcendent Man. Its a documentary about Ray Kurzweil, a genius who pops 200 pills a day in the hope of keeping himself alive until 2040 or so when we'll be able to download our psyche/soul onto the internet and eventually possess cloned bodies and be immortal. It makes a hell of a lot of more sense to believe in that than the Judeo-Christian heaven, and is no more crazy a concept than iPhones would have been to our grandma's if they were told about them as little girls. Its pretty much what keeps me going, finding out if we make it another 29 years and that type of thing goes down or we wipe ourselves out before we can make it. Maybe you, Doug, and I will be sipping mohitos on the beach of a terraformed Mars 200 years from now all wearing the body of Matt Damon and having really nasty sex with aliens. It could happen/McWorld.

[theonlypurpose]

I've thought about that before, too, and the problem, as I see it, is that Ray Kurzweil will go all that way only to still die as a reproduction of his consciousness is downloaded onto a computer. sure, the reproduction will be to the tee, but it'll just be a copy. the living consciousness that is Him will die with his memory cells. I'm sure this is debatable philosophically, but when his brain dies, he dies, and whatever lives on in a computer is a separate entity, completely apart from him. it's the one thing the Federation never tells to any of its crew: once you step into that teleport, you are fucked. see, the theory behind the teleporter in Star Trek is that it will scatter your atoms, only to reconstruct them somewhere else. however, when they're constructed somewhere else, they are, in fact, something else, and the original Star Fleet member is now floating in billions of pieces around the bridge. downloading yourself to a computer would work in much the same way. however, this is an optimistic way of looking at this: we are living our children, forming their first memories for a lifetime of immortality. therefore, life is not useless. we are making the long sacrifice of living a pointless life so that Doug Jr., Ray Jr. and David Jr. can sip mojitos on the beach of terraformed Mars and discuss reminisce about our memories.

SPOILER ALERT

[the_new_zer0]

I hear what you sayin, and your proper spelling of Mojito does lend you credibility, however I would imagine Kurzweil would argue that the technology present 29 years into the future would be such that it wouldn't be a precise copy but would actually be you, sans flesh. As far as the argument regarding our physical form defining us to some degree, the argument lies in the ol' every seven years we basically inhabit new bodies on a cellular level. So if Kurzweil is suggesting this trend continues indefinitely in an even more extreme concept of new body it might not be so different from whats occurring now, and what has always occurred on a biological level. Also, I think his vision includes lots of cybernetic hybridization on a nanotechnological scale. I think we and most people can agree, as well would Kurzweil, that in a post-technological singularity world our concept of humanity would be completely nullified and we would we talking about the evolution to an arguably higher plane of existence.
Have you seen the film Primer? Its an ultra-realistic mega low budget indie sci-fi about some dudes inventing time travel in their garage, but basically their time travel box is a death box which creates a copy of that person and sends them back in time. I guess The Prestige also dealt with this concept, but Primer is a better depiction of this where The Prestige is just an all around more awesome film.

Re: SPOILER ALERT

[vampricramen]

From what I understand, scientists have already invented teleportation with sub-atomic particles. However, it's less about scattering the material information and sending it through the air like a Willy Wonka device (which is how I think the average person visualizes the concept), and more like a fax machine. Other nondescript particles are pulled from the air and rewritten with the original particle's information while said particle is destroyed; in effect: a clone. It's an upsetting concept. Although not as upsetting to me as the concept of teleportation in "The Jaunt" (S. King) where a person's free-floating consciousness experiences an extreme dilation of time in a bodiless quantum limbo, which I fear may be the actual post-death experience.
While I'd like to be around to experience this singularity, mostly because I'm sick of living in this between flesh and technology age, I doubt it's going to solve the "mortality problem". Not unless we can actually discover a way to prevent universal heat-death, which maybe in a few million years Ray, Doug, and David the LIVs will figure out while sipping Mojitos on Planet X.

Re: SPOILER ALERT

[the_new_zer0]

First, we haven't really been discussing teleportation, but I think your point is basically Davids, about copies as opposed to the original in a new form. I'd like to point out that we are all nerds who are essentially morons and are talking about 30 years in the future and concepts that are predicated on vast leaps in technology thus nullifying what scientists have already done now. Having said that, I imagine it less as a copying or teleporting scenario and more of a wifi control of a remote host, like sitting in front of a computer playing second life if in reality that person you are playing had a physical manifestation somewhere and you were able to experience all of their sensory input. If you are playing a video game do you think of this experience in terms of that not being your thoughts but a copy of your thoughts in the body of the character in the video game?

Re: SPOILER ALERT

[vampricramen]

I realize I went off on a tangent, which is what I do on LJ, and when I've had a bit to drink, and also when I'm sober and in real life.
Well, with video games it's always bit of role-playing. When I'm presented with an increasing number of simulated ethic dilemmas (i.e. Dragon Age/Fable/Fallout), while I often choose the solution or path based on my own moral compass even if I'm sure that choice will further complicate the game for me, I still feel a separation from myself and the character I'm controlling. I think while traditionally video games have been a playground for the id (kill everyone else in the game that isn't a princess), more and more we're allowed to play as our idealized or heroic self or some variation of it (I'm tempted to used the term 'superego', but that might not be quite right).

I think I might have taken your question a little too literally and went off on another tangent.

I think that a host body with unique sensory inputs and experiences different (maybe even not by a lot) from my own would actually influence my thoughts more than the other way around; the mind is slave to the body and all that.

Re: SPOILER ALERT

[the_new_zer0]

I think you guys have a very limited scope contemplating the future.

Re: SPOILER ALERT

[vampricramen]

I rarely contemplate beyond a week.