Ambiguity!

Dec 07, 2006 17:33

Voting is open to any science fiction fan based in Europe who has been active in fandom since 1 January 2005 and/or who was a member of Interaction, and who contributes at least £3 or 5 euros to the fund alongside their vote.Ok class, we're going to see why lawyers/legal clerks get paid so much ( Read more... )

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bellinghman December 7 2006, 18:27:22 UTC
Voting is open to any science fiction fan based in Europe who has been active in fandom since 1 January 2005 and/or who was a member of Interaction, and who contributes at least £3 or 5 euros to the fund alongside their vote.

Hmm, careful use of commas and positioning there.

Subject ((CondA or CondB) and CondC)

Subject => 'any science fiction fan based in Europe'

CondA => 'who has been active in fandom since 1 January 2005'

CondB => 'who was a member of Interaction'

CondC => 'who contributes at least £3 or 5 euros to the fund alongside their vote'

The comma is vital - it prevents it being interpreted as (CondA or (CondB and CondC))

1) this depends on how you evaluate the "and/or" and what it applies to.

The first 'who' appears after the 'science fiction fan based in Europe', so is a modifier to that. It would seem reasonable to assume that all subsequent 'who's are applied to the same subject as the first. Otherwise, you might as well apply them to Santa Claus.

So, unless you are based in Europe, you can't vote.

2 ( ... )

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the_magician December 7 2006, 18:43:17 UTC
You're not parsing it fully (perhaps!)

Subject ((CondA or CondB) and CondC)

Subject => 'any science fiction fan'

CondD => 'based in Europe'

CondA => 'who has been active in fandom since 1 January 2005'

CondB => 'who was a member of Interaction'

CondC => 'who contributes at least £3 or 5 euros to the fund alongside their vote'

It's possible to read the original as

Voting is open to any science fiction fan ([based in Europe] and [who has been active in fandom since 1 January 2005]) and/or ([who was a member of Interaction] ( and implied from Interaction's dates) [which makes them active in fandom since 1 January 2005]))

which indeed is how I read it.

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the_magician December 7 2006, 18:51:26 UTC
In fact, I'd say "member of Interaction" implies "SF fan", "active in fandom" and "active since January 1st 2005".

So

CondA => 'who has been active in fandom since 1 January 2005'

CondB => 'who was a member of Interaction'

CondC => 'who contributes at least £3 or 5 euros to the fund alongside their vote'

CondD => 'based in Europe'

CondE => 'any science fiction fan''

CondB implies CondE
CondB implies CondA (my assertion at least)

CondC is distributed across and so we can ignore it for the purposes of this discussion.

"Voting is open to any science fiction fan based in Europe who has been active in fandom since 1 January 2005 and/or who was a member of Interaction"

Comes down to whether you decide whether "based in Europe" is strongly bound to "any science fiction fan" or whether it is another modifier like "who has been active in fandom".

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bellinghman December 7 2006, 21:39:34 UTC
IMO, it's strongly bound, as can be told by the fact it is then followed by 3 'who' phrases.

BTW - are you sure you want to raise a USAnian contingent? I only mention this as amongst others, you're competing against NoJay 'I almost live in Atlanta' Sneddon.

(On the other hand, so far as fund raising is concerned, the mor the merrier.)

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More ... the_magician December 7 2006, 18:55:13 UTC
2) If you were a member of Interaction but have not been active in fandom and didn't attend Interaction can you vote? (this is the easy one, I hope!)

CondB: You only have to have been a member.
No, as you said, you have to be in Europe as well. Unless you want to change your mind?

3) If you have been active in fandom since FEBRUARY 2005 but didn't join Interaction can you vote?

'Since February 2005' is insufficent to count as 'Since January 2005'. If the wording had said 'within the period since ...', that'd be a different matter. But a sign saying "This McDonalds has been serving Happy Meals since 1553" would almost certainly be considered untruthful in any court in the land.

"If you have had a car accident since January 1st 2005 you must fill in form B." I had a car accident in April 2006, do I have to fill in the form?

4) If you were active in fandom prior to January 1st 2005 but have done nothing since, can you vote?

Well, voting itself is being active, so this would be rather difficult to achieve. Unless you manage to vote ( ... )

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Re: More ... bellinghman December 7 2006, 21:35:13 UTC
2) ... I assumed I didn't have to include that bit. Next time I will, even though it'll fill hige amounts of extra space.

3) ... There is a difference between continuous and perfect. "have been active" is a continuous case, just as "have been serving". "had" is perfect. There is a distinct difference in meaning. If the perfect tense had been used - 'had been active' - then your interpretation would be correct. However, the tense used was 'have been active', and that has a different sense.

4) ... happy to oblige!

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