Question.

[the_grynne]

What kind of sense of self does Skynet have?

Specifically: Is Skynet indifferent to which version of It exists in the dominant timeline?

Comments

[so_spiffed]

Stop editing your posts right after I read them! Even though, you know, I do that too...

If it's physically the same, it's me. I mean, if I lose all of my memories tomorrow, are you going to try telling me I'm not me? No! You can't! Because I won't remember who you are and just brush you off as some crazy person! *cough*

Aaanyway...

I don't see why it should care if it alters the path of its own creation as long as it gets created. Since, in this new age of Terminator, it seems that an alternate timeline is created each time you alter something, I also don't see why it should really matter, either. You're guaranteed a win in one of the lines at some point.

Or maybe some part of Skynet is like a pin, and all the other threads just wind around it at some point before going of in their own directions again.

And maybe, just maybe, I have NO IDEA what I'm talking about. Yeah. I think that's it.

*spams*

[the_grynne]

Or maybe some part of Skynet is like a pin, and all the other threads just wind around it at some point before going of in their own directions again.

Like Sarah Connor is the egg that gave rise to John Connor - and none of the rest manner ultimately, just her. (Like liminalliz, I'm starting to think that the earliest John Connor wasn't Kyle Reese's son at all.)

[so_spiffed]

Great. Now all I can see is a Sarah Connor pin, and a Skynet pin, and this figure of ∞ winding around 'em both.

I'm going to dream of pins and string and terminators. I know it. *sigh*

[rodlox]

if it weren't for the fact that you're smarter than me, I'd wonder if we were sharing a brain --

I wondered today (out on a long walk) if, in the original timeline, Skynet was unable to find out who the parents of archfoe John Connor were...so it assembled a list of canidates, and sent back Terminators -
the first Terminator went up against T1's Sarah Connor...

and the feedback loop was born. he may be a different John Connor in the loop than prior to the loop, but the loop Connor is almost designed for the fight against Skynet.

(and all that, from thinking how common a name "Sarah" and "John Connor" are)

[indiefic]

My thought is that there is some single as-yet-unknown element that is ultimately Skynet - a piece of code or a certain chip architecture

[the_grynne]

My thought is that there is some single as-yet-unknown element that is ultimately Skynet - a piece of code or a certain chip architecture.

If so, do you think this central element (the pin or spindle, is the metaphor so_spiffed used up-thread), destined to become Skynet, can be developed independently by people with no ties/communications connecting them? I think it's interesting that the franchise so far seems to be saying that there is a line of evidence to link the various originators of Skynet. (Dyson's labs, to Andy Goode the intern, etc.)

I used the word destiny on purpose - Skynet seems convinced of its destiny, what it was destined to be. We know that when it became self-aware, it acquired a great self-preservational instinct - or why else eliminate the human threat. So Skynet would not decide to alter the past if it thought that was going to alter what it was - a kind of self-destruction.

I suppose my central issue is that I don't feel that all of these separate Skynets, even with the connecting key element (the chip, or whatever

[indiefic]

...can be developed independently by people with no ties/communications connecting them?

I guess my point was that if we don't know what the pin/spindle/element is, there's no indication that it is a different person(s) developing it each time judgment day is averted/postponed.

my central issue is that I don't feel that all of these separate Skynets, even with the connecting key element (the chip, or whatever), SHOULD be the same.But that seems like a very human perspective to me. It's an AI. And Skynet may be able to acknowledge that a different iteration of itself might behave differently without necessarily seeing itself as fundamentally changed. Also, I think an AI would assume that its logic is the only possible logic, the only logical logic, ergo regardless of when/where/who creates it, it will always reach the same ultimate destiny

[paradise_city]

These are not small changes, but alterations in time-space that have the potential to greatly affect what kind of AI superorganism "Skynet" is. Yet it seems that Skynet remains Skynet, whatever is done to it.

This is a great question, and one I haven't seen asked before. Personally, I think the answer comes down to a matter of evolution. If Skynet is the pinnacle of technological evolution then it will always be the same because, based on John's singularity theory, it is self-designed to reach that exact point. If it designed for and capable of reaching perfection, I think the end result will always be the same.

I was also going to argue that Skynet doesn't have the emotional or social vagaries that often manifest in humans as changes caused by differing timelines, but Andy's comparison of Turk I to Turk II make that point pretty moot.

Interesting food for thought here. Nice post.

[the_grynne]

If Skynet is the pinnacle of technological evolution then it will always be the same because, based on John's singularity theory, it is self-designed to reach that exact point. If it designed for and capable of reaching perfection, I think the end result will always be the same.

There is an unsettling undercurrent in Terminator, I've realised through this discussion, that Skynet is indeed perfect in that way - that it is destined to be perfect - and having achieved perfection, it cannot act OTHER THAN to want to wipe out humanity.

The thought displeases me because, if the humans can change their fate, as Sarah and Kyle believe, then why can't Skynet?

[rodlox]

>The thought displeases me because, if the humans can change their fate, as Sarah and Kyle believe, then why can't Skynet?

maybe because humans *are* imperfect...unable to attain perfection.

it's one of the arguments against god-like aliens: "if you're perfect, and you find a race of imperfect beings on some planet, do you uplift them to your level of perfection? do you put them out of their misery? or do you abandon them & go elsewhere?"

granted, Kyle would probably love nothing more than for Skynet to go elsewhere.

[the_grynne]

But Skynet cannot be perfect, God-like - otherwise, how is it possible for John to beat it?

In a way, it also absolves Skynet of any responsibility for its actions - it brought about the nuclear war because that was what it HAD to do. Which I think is a cop out - if it's intelligent and self-aware, it should be held accountable to its actions.

[notexotic]

I agree with paradise_city's comment that inherent in Skynet's design there is some sort self-regulation. The path may be different but the inevitable "birth" is always the same.

As to how John fits in, I have a nagging suspicion that one cannot exist without the other. Obligate symbiosis.

[the_grynne]

The path may be different but the inevitable "birth" is always the same.

Perhaps that is what separates human from machine - this different conception of "birth". For Skynet, it's self-awareness is all. It doesn't matter who designed it, who put it together, or when this happens. Skynet in the future, which places high import on its own preservation (it's "liberty", in the positive sense) consider any AI that attains that level of perfection, as equivalent to Itself.

[rodlox]

and It might figure that, whatever differences exist (moody, etc) between the pre-Judgement forms, Judgement Day and the days on either side thereof, will be sufficient to iron out any and all differences.

end result: Skynet.

[notexotic]

Exactly. Going back to the clone thing you brought up in your post, it seems as if Skynet is intentionally creating these different strings of possibility so that if one is deterred the others will continue on. The success rate increases, but is there a critical point where it begins to decrease as well?

(omg, I hate statistics. It has fried my brain.)

[dorukai]

Heh, Frankenstein complex taken to the extreme really: any sufficiently large computer network will become self aware and attempt to exterminate humanity.

Although, it'd be sort of cool if it was Cameron.

[the_grynne]

Although, it'd be sort of cool if it was Cameron.

Oh, wouldn't it just?

[dorukai]

We've already had a hint of that with her saving that metal bar from the bunker, too. Hee.

[the_grynne]

You've seen more episodes! Where are you up to?