Discussion about mathematics and art
A discussion that arose from this quiz on 18 Jul 2006:
[18:34:39] <figgylicious> rofl
[18:34:43] <figgylicious> I'd fail 8th grade math!
[18:34:49] * figgylicious got a 6/10
[18:34:50] <figgylicious> I suuuuck
[18:35:09] <taiji_jian> Haw
[18:35:15] <taiji_jian> YOU'D fail 8th grade *SPANISH*
[18:36:38] <figgylicious> http://community.livejournal.com/teunc/277489.html
[18:36:52] * taiji_jian : MOX Fig
[18:37:50] <jereeza> lol fig
[18:37:53] <jereeza> let me try
[18:37:56] <figgylicious> hehe
[18:37:57] <figgylicious> yes jereeza
[18:38:01] <figgylicious> you know how it is
[18:39:49] <figgylicious> I got bored
[18:39:51] <taiji_jian> And I had skipped two questions and started on question 4 before I realized the test isn't timed
[18:39:51] <taiji_jian> :)
[18:39:55] <figgylicious> and guessed at the last ones
[18:40:10] <figgylicious> I never ever got fractions
[18:40:11] <figgylicious> ever
[18:40:17] <figgylicious> they were beyond me
[18:41:09] <figgylicious> it drove my teachers crazy
[18:45:31] <jereeza> I passed!
[18:45:34] <jereeza> Just about!
[18:45:37] <jereeza> 7/10
[18:45:54] <figgylicious> yay!
[18:46:16] <jereeza> I can show it to my mommy! yay no repeat classes!
[18:46:33] <figgylicious> hahaha
[18:46:46] <figgylicious> that's just about how I passed high school math
[18:47:11] <jereeza> you're telling me
[18:47:55] <taiji_jian> Hee
[18:47:57] * taiji_jian got them all right
[18:48:06] <taiji_jian> I did have to use paper on a few of them though
[18:48:17] <figgylicious> cheat! I did it all with my MIND
[18:48:18] * taiji_jian is happy
[18:48:22] <figgylicious> (it didn't work)
[18:48:42] * taiji_jian has not completely forgotten everything that he drilled into his brain back when he was studying math 4 hours a day
[18:48:48] <jereeza> I did it with my MIND too!!
[18:49:00] <figgylicious> 4 hours a day
[18:49:02] <figgylicious> eewwwwww
[18:49:06] <figgylicious> I got tired with 45 minutes
[18:49:08] <taiji_jian> Well
[18:49:11] <taiji_jian> I didn't have anything else to do
[18:49:15] <jereeza> hee, in high school I was taking extra maths classes
[18:49:20] <taiji_jian> And I needed to finish highschool math so I could do college calculus
[18:49:20] <taiji_jian> :)
[18:49:44] <figgylicious> ew jereeza
[18:49:53] <jereeza> well I needed to pass
[18:54:33] <jereeza> god I hated maths. we had as much maths & science as the science branch, and they only had one foreign language! fuckers!
[18:54:41] <figgylicious> yes!
[18:54:42] <figgylicious> me too!
[18:54:47] <figgylicious> and NO art classes
[18:54:50] <figgylicious> none!
[18:55:07] <jereeza> well ok we didn't have art classes in highschool either, only art history
[18:55:11] <figgylicious> and I had to do physics and biology and chemistry and math and economics
[18:55:11] <figgylicious> wtf.
[18:55:20] <figgylicious> we didn't even have art history
[18:55:30] <figgylicious> in my life before college I took ONE art class, way back in 9th grade
[18:55:42] * taiji_jian shakes his head sadly
[18:55:57] <taiji_jian> You're acting like art precludes math
[18:56:06] <figgylicious> it so does
[18:56:07] <taiji_jian> Art depends on math!
[18:56:15] <jereeza> yeah, I know! we did geography and economy and maths and physics and biology and chemistry on top of all the humanities and five foreign languages, and they had one language!!111 ONE
[18:56:18] <figgylicious> please
[18:56:45] <figgylicious> I've needed like 10% of the math I learned in high school
[18:56:53] <taiji_jian> You don't understand
[18:57:09] <jereeza> architecture does, pag. and you misworded your statement
[18:57:13] <taiji_jian> "Needing" math doesn't mean, like, encountering textbook problems in daily life
[18:57:34] <jereeza> art depends on knowing proportions and perspective and bodies and planes
[18:57:35] <taiji_jian> Which, I agree, doesn't happen often, unless you're an engineer (or an architect) or something
[18:57:39] <jereeza> but
[18:57:43] <figgylicious> if you mean 'everything uses math' well good then. but i never use it consciously
[18:57:44] <figgylicious> and that's awesome.
[18:57:45] <taiji_jian> But it's like protien or something
[18:57:45] <jereeza> that's not math
[18:58:04] <taiji_jian> It builds your brain
[18:58:04] <figgylicious> I don't NEED to know any math to do art
[18:58:13] <taiji_jian> You NEED to know math to be alive
[18:58:13] <jereeza> it's just the world around us. art deals with it in one way, sciences in another
[18:58:15] <taiji_jian> The more math you know
[18:58:16] <figgylicious> all it did was made me fall asleep and nearly fail classes
[18:58:17] <taiji_jian> The better your brain is
[18:58:29] <taiji_jian> Hmm
[18:58:32] <figgylicious> same goes for art
[18:58:34] * taiji_jian is not explaining this well at all
[18:58:39] <taiji_jian> Apparently
[18:58:42] <taiji_jian> When I get serious in teunc
[18:58:47] <taiji_jian> My ability to be coherent goes someplace else
[18:59:21] <figgylicious> I mean
[18:59:24] <jereeza> well pag, I can barely add and I managed to come out top of my class in grad school in a foreign country, a new field, and unfamiliar schooling system
[18:59:46] <taiji_jian> Bha, wot are yew talking aboat?
[18:59:49] <taiji_jian> You just passed 8th grade math!
[18:59:52] <taiji_jian> ;p
[18:59:58] <jereeza> so I guess my brain works fine fuelled by humanities alone ;)
[19:00:01] <figgylicious> I UNDERSTAND that everything uses math. And good. Good for math. But want to know how.
[19:00:10] <figgylicious> I don't want to know how I mean
[19:00:12] <figgylicious> I don't CARE
[19:00:20] <taiji_jian> Fig, I know
[19:00:23] <taiji_jian> That's not what I'm talking about
[19:00:34] <figgylicious> then I have no idea what you're talking about.
[19:00:37] <taiji_jian> I know
[19:00:38] <figgylicious> and yeah jereeza, exactly ;)
[19:00:40] <banazir> Heyas
[19:00:42] <jereeza> also fig, remember that cave art precedes any record of ole peoples using maths ;)
[19:00:45] * taiji_jian thinks of a different way to explain it
[19:00:50] <figgylicious> indeed ;D
[19:01:33] * taiji_jian thinks of some examples
[19:01:36] <taiji_jian> Like, The Art of War
[19:01:41] <figgylicious> oh boy.
[19:01:45] <jereeza> Bana, TEUNC melts pag's brain. TEUNC is KRYPTONITE for PAGBRAIN!
[19:01:50] <taiji_jian> LOL
[19:01:59] <taiji_jian> The Art of War has nothing to do with anything but war
[19:02:02] <taiji_jian> And yet, people who study it
[19:02:13] <taiji_jian> Get really good at all kinds of things
[19:02:16] <jereeza> it has to do with stealing others' food
[19:02:16] <taiji_jian> Like business management
[19:02:35] <taiji_jian> Because it changes your brain on a level that has to do with fundamental thinking process
[19:02:38] <jereeza> I remember that! never waste power on carrying food, take it from the lands you go through!
[19:02:39] <figgylicious> aha
[19:02:48] <taiji_jian> It's not about specific instances of math, fig, or about using math skills in real life or whatever.
[19:02:49] <figgylicious> but so does...pretty much everything else
[19:02:52] <taiji_jian> It's about thought-patterns
[19:03:07] <banazir> Hrm
[19:03:08] * banazir agreens
[19:03:10] <figgylicious> anything you study, anything new is going to get your brain thinking in new ways
[19:03:13] <taiji_jian> There's a physical correlation
[19:03:19] <jereeza> so does art, pag. it teaches you how to look differently at things. see links where you thought were none.
[19:03:19] <taiji_jian> So, I play violin
[19:03:26] <taiji_jian> And, you can just practice and practice away
[19:03:29] <taiji_jian> And nothign happens
[19:03:36] <banazir> Certainly it's true of analytical mathematics and music
[19:03:36] <taiji_jian> because you're focusing on technical details and crap
[19:03:37] <figgylicious> studying art is going to help you in observation and study
[19:03:42] <taiji_jian> And that's not where real skill and real art lives
[19:03:47] <taiji_jian> But, I can go do tai chi
[19:03:49] <banazir> Analytical as in calculus, topology, even algebra
[19:03:52] <taiji_jian> Which uses a completely different set of muscles
[19:03:57] * banazir nods
[19:04:04] <taiji_jian> And it makes me a better artist
[19:04:10] <taiji_jian> It's the same with math
[19:04:16] <figgylicious> right
[19:04:17] <taiji_jian> By not studying math, you're cheating yourself of potential
[19:04:21] <taiji_jian> I'm not saying like, you can't get buy
[19:04:29] <taiji_jian> By
[19:04:29] <taiji_jian> bye
[19:04:30] <taiji_jian> Hmm
[19:04:37] <figgylicious> by
[19:04:44] <taiji_jian> (For example, studying math does not improve your spelling ;p)
[19:04:48] <figgylicious> LOL
[19:04:56] <jereeza> you see, bill? you see this? this poor, hardworking man breaks down in here! He can barely TYPE!
[19:04:59] <banazir> ROFL
[19:05:03] <taiji_jian> LOLOLOL
[19:05:06] <banazir> lololol
[19:05:12] <taiji_jian> Anyway
[19:05:12] <figgylicious> lolol
[19:05:15] <taiji_jian> That is why math is important
[19:05:18] <figgylicious> right
[19:05:19] <taiji_jian> Not because you need to use it
[19:05:20] <taiji_jian> You don
[19:05:21] <taiji_jian> 't
[19:05:27] <banazir> Well
[19:05:27] <taiji_jian> But you need it to have used your brain
[19:05:28] <banazir> AYE do
[19:05:33] <figgylicious> but that's why studying art or doing art is important too
[19:05:36] <taiji_jian> Naz yew dknot Bill
[19:05:41] <figgylicious> because it gets you to use completely different skills
[19:05:43] <taiji_jian> Yew have ste3wdents to do it FRRO yew
[19:05:47] <banazir> But it exercises a part of your brain that may be useful in nonmathematical pursuits
[19:05:55] <jereeza> but pag, you misworded, as I said. you said that math comes before art, when they are both useful at once
[19:05:57] <banazir> Hey, that's not MATH
[19:05:59] <figgylicious> whether it's for painting or doing ceramics or for looking at a work of art
[19:06:04] <taiji_jian> jereeza, naz
[19:06:07] <banazir> That's systems administration and configuration
[19:06:08] <taiji_jian> I said art depends on math
[19:06:12] <banazir> That's not even PROGRAMMING
[19:06:17] <taiji_jian> I.e., if you study math
[19:06:20] <jereeza> it doesn't, look at what gets sold today
[19:06:20] <taiji_jian> Your artistic abilities will improve
[19:06:38] <taiji_jian> Even though you are not thinking about art at all while actually doing and learning math
[19:06:43] <banazir> I think "depends on" is an overloaded term
[19:06:45] * taiji_jian grinz at Bill
[19:06:51] <jereeza> aye, bana
[19:07:02] <banazir> I think math rests on a foundation that is common to many subjects
[19:07:47] <figgylicious> I don't know. I'm sure some great artists never gave a crap about math
[19:07:48] <taiji_jian> Yee, thought
[19:07:52] <jereeza> maths in that way depend on art too. when you look at how certain artists play with the ideas of space, &c., it can influence your way of finking
[19:07:54] <figgylicious> and they were still great artists
[19:08:04] <figgylicious> you're making it sound like
[19:08:07] <jereeza> bana, iss wot I toosaid
[19:08:16] <figgylicious> if you don't study math you're not very good
[19:08:20] <figgylicious> or not as good as you could be
[19:08:21] <taiji_jian> Naz Fig
[19:08:24] <taiji_jian> Yee Fig
[19:08:28] <figgylicious> that's crap
[19:08:31] <taiji_jian> Naz Fig
[19:08:32] <banazir> That foundation being analytical thinking and pattern-based reasoning
[19:08:42] <taiji_jian> Right
[19:08:50] <jereeza> I agree with Bana here
[19:08:53] <banazir> That foundation UNDERLIES math
[19:08:55] <taiji_jian> Bana is agreeing with me
[19:08:58] <taiji_jian> :)
[19:08:58] <banazir> I wouldn't say that it IS math
[19:09:01] <taiji_jian> Okaz
[19:09:05] <jereeza> He's not
[19:09:10] <taiji_jian> Sure Bill
[19:09:10] <banazir> I would say that math is the pure exercise of that thinking
[19:09:11] <jereeza> He's more correct
[19:09:17] <taiji_jian> Zigzaxly
[19:09:18] <figgylicious> I agree with bana too
[19:09:19] <figgylicious> amazingly enough
[19:09:26] <banazir> So is artistic creativity
[19:09:27] <taiji_jian> Fig
[19:09:31] <taiji_jian> Bana is restating what I just said
[19:09:31] <banazir> Just in a different way
[19:09:33] <taiji_jian> In more geeky terms
[19:09:36] <banazir> LOL!
[19:09:39] * banazir whaps Pag
[19:09:42] <taiji_jian> Hehehe
[19:09:46] <figgylicious> well he's certainly clearer about what he's trying to say
[19:09:48] <jereeza> Pag
[19:09:50] <taiji_jian> Nazdoubt
[19:09:52] <jereeza> we're all adults here
[19:10:05] <jereeza> and can see that bana said a greater truth than thou :P
[19:10:09] <taiji_jian> jereeza, who are you calling adult?
[19:10:12] <figgylicious> lol
[19:10:12] <taiji_jian> Fig is deinitely knot adult
[19:10:14] <figgylicious> indeed....
[19:10:21] <jereeza> you ain't getting younger, buster!
[19:10:22] <taiji_jian> ;p
[19:10:25] <banazir> Anyhow
[19:10:28] <taiji_jian> That is true
[19:10:30] <taiji_jian> Unfortunately
[19:10:33] <banazir> What I agreen with Pag about is that people who study math are exercising a cognitive skill that CAN transfer to art
[19:10:38] <figgylicious> yes. you epitome of age and wisdom.
[19:10:42] <taiji_jian> Hehehehe
[19:10:47] * taiji_jian gets oat his walking stick
[19:10:47] <jereeza> why unfortunately? to me it just keeps getting better with years
[19:10:48] <banazir> and vice versa, in some kinds of art
[19:10:50] <taiji_jian> "Ayup. Rain coming."
[19:10:57] <banazir> Pag
[19:11:01] <banazir> Yew aknot nold
[19:11:04] <banazir> Yew are just LAME
[19:11:06] <taiji_jian> Well know
[19:11:09] <figgylicious> well yeah bana
[19:11:11] <taiji_jian> Not compared to YEW no
[19:11:12] <figgylicious> it can
[19:11:16] <banazir> Taht walking stick iknot flloing nazbuddy ;)
[19:11:21] <figgylicious> but it's not necessarily conductive to making BETTER art
[19:11:24] <taiji_jian> So, Fig
[19:11:40] <taiji_jian> Like, I'm not saying you personally a4re a bad potter
[19:11:43] <taiji_jian> Or a bad muralist
[19:11:44] <taiji_jian> Or whatever
[19:11:48] <taiji_jian> But
[19:11:51] <taiji_jian> You have a steady job
[19:12:06] <taiji_jian> You do not have to spend every day trying to figure out how to get ahead of the game
[19:12:08] <jereeza> Pag
[19:12:09] <taiji_jian> Doing EVERY SINGLE THING YOU CAN
[19:12:15] <taiji_jian> To be THE BEST THERE IS
[19:12:16] <taiji_jian> just to eat
[19:12:18] <figgylicious> what're you on about now?
[19:12:22] <taiji_jian> You think about these thigns
[19:12:40] <jereeza> I'd like you suggest this theory to dashamus.
--
Banazir
[18:34:39] <figgylicious> rofl
[18:34:43] <figgylicious> I'd fail 8th grade math!
[18:34:49] * figgylicious got a 6/10
[18:34:50] <figgylicious> I suuuuck
[18:35:09] <taiji_jian> Haw
[18:35:15] <taiji_jian> YOU'D fail 8th grade *SPANISH*
[18:36:38] <figgylicious> http://community.livejournal.com/teunc/277489.html
[18:36:52] * taiji_jian : MOX Fig
[18:37:50] <jereeza> lol fig
[18:37:53] <jereeza> let me try
[18:37:56] <figgylicious> hehe
[18:37:57] <figgylicious> yes jereeza
[18:38:01] <figgylicious> you know how it is
[18:39:49] <figgylicious> I got bored
[18:39:51] <taiji_jian> And I had skipped two questions and started on question 4 before I realized the test isn't timed
[18:39:51] <taiji_jian> :)
[18:39:55] <figgylicious> and guessed at the last ones
[18:40:10] <figgylicious> I never ever got fractions
[18:40:11] <figgylicious> ever
[18:40:17] <figgylicious> they were beyond me
[18:41:09] <figgylicious> it drove my teachers crazy
[18:45:31] <jereeza> I passed!
[18:45:34] <jereeza> Just about!
[18:45:37] <jereeza> 7/10
[18:45:54] <figgylicious> yay!
[18:46:16] <jereeza> I can show it to my mommy! yay no repeat classes!
[18:46:33] <figgylicious> hahaha
[18:46:46] <figgylicious> that's just about how I passed high school math
[18:47:11] <jereeza> you're telling me
[18:47:55] <taiji_jian> Hee
[18:47:57] * taiji_jian got them all right
[18:48:06] <taiji_jian> I did have to use paper on a few of them though
[18:48:17] <figgylicious> cheat! I did it all with my MIND
[18:48:18] * taiji_jian is happy
[18:48:22] <figgylicious> (it didn't work)
[18:48:42] * taiji_jian has not completely forgotten everything that he drilled into his brain back when he was studying math 4 hours a day
[18:48:48] <jereeza> I did it with my MIND too!!
[18:49:00] <figgylicious> 4 hours a day
[18:49:02] <figgylicious> eewwwwww
[18:49:06] <figgylicious> I got tired with 45 minutes
[18:49:08] <taiji_jian> Well
[18:49:11] <taiji_jian> I didn't have anything else to do
[18:49:15] <jereeza> hee, in high school I was taking extra maths classes
[18:49:20] <taiji_jian> And I needed to finish highschool math so I could do college calculus
[18:49:20] <taiji_jian> :)
[18:49:44] <figgylicious> ew jereeza
[18:49:53] <jereeza> well I needed to pass
[18:54:33] <jereeza> god I hated maths. we had as much maths & science as the science branch, and they only had one foreign language! fuckers!
[18:54:41] <figgylicious> yes!
[18:54:42] <figgylicious> me too!
[18:54:47] <figgylicious> and NO art classes
[18:54:50] <figgylicious> none!
[18:55:07] <jereeza> well ok we didn't have art classes in highschool either, only art history
[18:55:11] <figgylicious> and I had to do physics and biology and chemistry and math and economics
[18:55:11] <figgylicious> wtf.
[18:55:20] <figgylicious> we didn't even have art history
[18:55:30] <figgylicious> in my life before college I took ONE art class, way back in 9th grade
[18:55:42] * taiji_jian shakes his head sadly
[18:55:57] <taiji_jian> You're acting like art precludes math
[18:56:06] <figgylicious> it so does
[18:56:07] <taiji_jian> Art depends on math!
[18:56:15] <jereeza> yeah, I know! we did geography and economy and maths and physics and biology and chemistry on top of all the humanities and five foreign languages, and they had one language!!111 ONE
[18:56:18] <figgylicious> please
[18:56:45] <figgylicious> I've needed like 10% of the math I learned in high school
[18:56:53] <taiji_jian> You don't understand
[18:57:09] <jereeza> architecture does, pag. and you misworded your statement
[18:57:13] <taiji_jian> "Needing" math doesn't mean, like, encountering textbook problems in daily life
[18:57:34] <jereeza> art depends on knowing proportions and perspective and bodies and planes
[18:57:35] <taiji_jian> Which, I agree, doesn't happen often, unless you're an engineer (or an architect) or something
[18:57:39] <jereeza> but
[18:57:43] <figgylicious> if you mean 'everything uses math' well good then. but i never use it consciously
[18:57:44] <figgylicious> and that's awesome.
[18:57:45] <taiji_jian> But it's like protien or something
[18:57:45] <jereeza> that's not math
[18:58:04] <taiji_jian> It builds your brain
[18:58:04] <figgylicious> I don't NEED to know any math to do art
[18:58:13] <taiji_jian> You NEED to know math to be alive
[18:58:13] <jereeza> it's just the world around us. art deals with it in one way, sciences in another
[18:58:15] <taiji_jian> The more math you know
[18:58:16] <figgylicious> all it did was made me fall asleep and nearly fail classes
[18:58:17] <taiji_jian> The better your brain is
[18:58:29] <taiji_jian> Hmm
[18:58:32] <figgylicious> same goes for art
[18:58:34] * taiji_jian is not explaining this well at all
[18:58:39] <taiji_jian> Apparently
[18:58:42] <taiji_jian> When I get serious in teunc
[18:58:47] <taiji_jian> My ability to be coherent goes someplace else
[18:59:21] <figgylicious> I mean
[18:59:24] <jereeza> well pag, I can barely add and I managed to come out top of my class in grad school in a foreign country, a new field, and unfamiliar schooling system
[18:59:46] <taiji_jian> Bha, wot are yew talking aboat?
[18:59:49] <taiji_jian> You just passed 8th grade math!
[18:59:52] <taiji_jian> ;p
[18:59:58] <jereeza> so I guess my brain works fine fuelled by humanities alone ;)
[19:00:01] <figgylicious> I UNDERSTAND that everything uses math. And good. Good for math. But want to know how.
[19:00:10] <figgylicious> I don't want to know how I mean
[19:00:12] <figgylicious> I don't CARE
[19:00:20] <taiji_jian> Fig, I know
[19:00:23] <taiji_jian> That's not what I'm talking about
[19:00:34] <figgylicious> then I have no idea what you're talking about.
[19:00:37] <taiji_jian> I know
[19:00:38] <figgylicious> and yeah jereeza, exactly ;)
[19:00:40] <banazir> Heyas
[19:00:42] <jereeza> also fig, remember that cave art precedes any record of ole peoples using maths ;)
[19:00:45] * taiji_jian thinks of a different way to explain it
[19:00:50] <figgylicious> indeed ;D
[19:01:33] * taiji_jian thinks of some examples
[19:01:36] <taiji_jian> Like, The Art of War
[19:01:41] <figgylicious> oh boy.
[19:01:45] <jereeza> Bana, TEUNC melts pag's brain. TEUNC is KRYPTONITE for PAGBRAIN!
[19:01:50] <taiji_jian> LOL
[19:01:59] <taiji_jian> The Art of War has nothing to do with anything but war
[19:02:02] <taiji_jian> And yet, people who study it
[19:02:13] <taiji_jian> Get really good at all kinds of things
[19:02:16] <jereeza> it has to do with stealing others' food
[19:02:16] <taiji_jian> Like business management
[19:02:35] <taiji_jian> Because it changes your brain on a level that has to do with fundamental thinking process
[19:02:38] <jereeza> I remember that! never waste power on carrying food, take it from the lands you go through!
[19:02:39] <figgylicious> aha
[19:02:48] <taiji_jian> It's not about specific instances of math, fig, or about using math skills in real life or whatever.
[19:02:49] <figgylicious> but so does...pretty much everything else
[19:02:52] <taiji_jian> It's about thought-patterns
[19:03:07] <banazir> Hrm
[19:03:08] * banazir agreens
[19:03:10] <figgylicious> anything you study, anything new is going to get your brain thinking in new ways
[19:03:13] <taiji_jian> There's a physical correlation
[19:03:19] <jereeza> so does art, pag. it teaches you how to look differently at things. see links where you thought were none.
[19:03:19] <taiji_jian> So, I play violin
[19:03:26] <taiji_jian> And, you can just practice and practice away
[19:03:29] <taiji_jian> And nothign happens
[19:03:36] <banazir> Certainly it's true of analytical mathematics and music
[19:03:36] <taiji_jian> because you're focusing on technical details and crap
[19:03:37] <figgylicious> studying art is going to help you in observation and study
[19:03:42] <taiji_jian> And that's not where real skill and real art lives
[19:03:47] <taiji_jian> But, I can go do tai chi
[19:03:49] <banazir> Analytical as in calculus, topology, even algebra
[19:03:52] <taiji_jian> Which uses a completely different set of muscles
[19:03:57] * banazir nods
[19:04:04] <taiji_jian> And it makes me a better artist
[19:04:10] <taiji_jian> It's the same with math
[19:04:16] <figgylicious> right
[19:04:17] <taiji_jian> By not studying math, you're cheating yourself of potential
[19:04:21] <taiji_jian> I'm not saying like, you can't get buy
[19:04:29] <taiji_jian> By
[19:04:29] <taiji_jian> bye
[19:04:30] <taiji_jian> Hmm
[19:04:37] <figgylicious> by
[19:04:44] <taiji_jian> (For example, studying math does not improve your spelling ;p)
[19:04:48] <figgylicious> LOL
[19:04:56] <jereeza> you see, bill? you see this? this poor, hardworking man breaks down in here! He can barely TYPE!
[19:04:59] <banazir> ROFL
[19:05:03] <taiji_jian> LOLOLOL
[19:05:06] <banazir> lololol
[19:05:12] <taiji_jian> Anyway
[19:05:12] <figgylicious> lolol
[19:05:15] <taiji_jian> That is why math is important
[19:05:18] <figgylicious> right
[19:05:19] <taiji_jian> Not because you need to use it
[19:05:20] <taiji_jian> You don
[19:05:21] <taiji_jian> 't
[19:05:27] <banazir> Well
[19:05:27] <taiji_jian> But you need it to have used your brain
[19:05:28] <banazir> AYE do
[19:05:33] <figgylicious> but that's why studying art or doing art is important too
[19:05:36] <taiji_jian> Naz yew dknot Bill
[19:05:41] <figgylicious> because it gets you to use completely different skills
[19:05:43] <taiji_jian> Yew have ste3wdents to do it FRRO yew
[19:05:47] <banazir> But it exercises a part of your brain that may be useful in nonmathematical pursuits
[19:05:55] <jereeza> but pag, you misworded, as I said. you said that math comes before art, when they are both useful at once
[19:05:57] <banazir> Hey, that's not MATH
[19:05:59] <figgylicious> whether it's for painting or doing ceramics or for looking at a work of art
[19:06:04] <taiji_jian> jereeza, naz
[19:06:07] <banazir> That's systems administration and configuration
[19:06:08] <taiji_jian> I said art depends on math
[19:06:12] <banazir> That's not even PROGRAMMING
[19:06:17] <taiji_jian> I.e., if you study math
[19:06:20] <jereeza> it doesn't, look at what gets sold today
[19:06:20] <taiji_jian> Your artistic abilities will improve
[19:06:38] <taiji_jian> Even though you are not thinking about art at all while actually doing and learning math
[19:06:43] <banazir> I think "depends on" is an overloaded term
[19:06:45] * taiji_jian grinz at Bill
[19:06:51] <jereeza> aye, bana
[19:07:02] <banazir> I think math rests on a foundation that is common to many subjects
[19:07:47] <figgylicious> I don't know. I'm sure some great artists never gave a crap about math
[19:07:48] <taiji_jian> Yee, thought
[19:07:52] <jereeza> maths in that way depend on art too. when you look at how certain artists play with the ideas of space, &c., it can influence your way of finking
[19:07:54] <figgylicious> and they were still great artists
[19:08:04] <figgylicious> you're making it sound like
[19:08:07] <jereeza> bana, iss wot I toosaid
[19:08:16] <figgylicious> if you don't study math you're not very good
[19:08:20] <figgylicious> or not as good as you could be
[19:08:21] <taiji_jian> Naz Fig
[19:08:24] <taiji_jian> Yee Fig
[19:08:28] <figgylicious> that's crap
[19:08:31] <taiji_jian> Naz Fig
[19:08:32] <banazir> That foundation being analytical thinking and pattern-based reasoning
[19:08:42] <taiji_jian> Right
[19:08:50] <jereeza> I agree with Bana here
[19:08:53] <banazir> That foundation UNDERLIES math
[19:08:55] <taiji_jian> Bana is agreeing with me
[19:08:58] <taiji_jian> :)
[19:08:58] <banazir> I wouldn't say that it IS math
[19:09:01] <taiji_jian> Okaz
[19:09:05] <jereeza> He's not
[19:09:10] <taiji_jian> Sure Bill
[19:09:10] <banazir> I would say that math is the pure exercise of that thinking
[19:09:11] <jereeza> He's more correct
[19:09:17] <taiji_jian> Zigzaxly
[19:09:18] <figgylicious> I agree with bana too
[19:09:19] <figgylicious> amazingly enough
[19:09:26] <banazir> So is artistic creativity
[19:09:27] <taiji_jian> Fig
[19:09:31] <taiji_jian> Bana is restating what I just said
[19:09:31] <banazir> Just in a different way
[19:09:33] <taiji_jian> In more geeky terms
[19:09:36] <banazir> LOL!
[19:09:39] * banazir whaps Pag
[19:09:42] <taiji_jian> Hehehe
[19:09:46] <figgylicious> well he's certainly clearer about what he's trying to say
[19:09:48] <jereeza> Pag
[19:09:50] <taiji_jian> Nazdoubt
[19:09:52] <jereeza> we're all adults here
[19:10:05] <jereeza> and can see that bana said a greater truth than thou :P
[19:10:09] <taiji_jian> jereeza, who are you calling adult?
[19:10:12] <figgylicious> lol
[19:10:12] <taiji_jian> Fig is deinitely knot adult
[19:10:14] <figgylicious> indeed....
[19:10:21] <jereeza> you ain't getting younger, buster!
[19:10:22] <taiji_jian> ;p
[19:10:25] <banazir> Anyhow
[19:10:28] <taiji_jian> That is true
[19:10:30] <taiji_jian> Unfortunately
[19:10:33] <banazir> What I agreen with Pag about is that people who study math are exercising a cognitive skill that CAN transfer to art
[19:10:38] <figgylicious> yes. you epitome of age and wisdom.
[19:10:42] <taiji_jian> Hehehehe
[19:10:47] * taiji_jian gets oat his walking stick
[19:10:47] <jereeza> why unfortunately? to me it just keeps getting better with years
[19:10:48] <banazir> and vice versa, in some kinds of art
[19:10:50] <taiji_jian> "Ayup. Rain coming."
[19:10:57] <banazir> Pag
[19:11:01] <banazir> Yew aknot nold
[19:11:04] <banazir> Yew are just LAME
[19:11:06] <taiji_jian> Well know
[19:11:09] <figgylicious> well yeah bana
[19:11:11] <taiji_jian> Not compared to YEW no
[19:11:12] <figgylicious> it can
[19:11:16] <banazir> Taht walking stick iknot flloing nazbuddy ;)
[19:11:21] <figgylicious> but it's not necessarily conductive to making BETTER art
[19:11:24] <taiji_jian> So, Fig
[19:11:40] <taiji_jian> Like, I'm not saying you personally a4re a bad potter
[19:11:43] <taiji_jian> Or a bad muralist
[19:11:44] <taiji_jian> Or whatever
[19:11:48] <taiji_jian> But
[19:11:51] <taiji_jian> You have a steady job
[19:12:06] <taiji_jian> You do not have to spend every day trying to figure out how to get ahead of the game
[19:12:08] <jereeza> Pag
[19:12:09] <taiji_jian> Doing EVERY SINGLE THING YOU CAN
[19:12:15] <taiji_jian> To be THE BEST THERE IS
[19:12:16] <taiji_jian> just to eat
[19:12:18] <figgylicious> what're you on about now?
[19:12:22] <taiji_jian> You think about these thigns
[19:12:40] <jereeza> I'd like you suggest this theory to dashamus.
--
Banazir