Looking for the Treason

[teratologist]

I swear on my grandmother's grave, I had no idea when I used 1984 as a metaphor in reference to We Need to Talk About Kevin that the book ends with the main character protesting her love for the character (both of the characters) that have utterly destroyed everything meaningful about her life and performing allegiance to a system that tells her

Comments

[mothwentbad]

Do you think that marriage or motherhood can be salvaged in some way if you're lucky and have the right help, or do you think there's something kind of intrinsic about it sucking? I think motherhood in particular might be tough, since kids are sort of... insistent and supposed to be kind of selfish and passionate to some degree. Grownups have a shot at doing better about all that supposedly, but who knows.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your take is on family, romance, and relationships is aside from the whole "unjustifiable network of expectations and misery" thing.

[teratologist]

I'm just the opposite. I think that some people have a genuine calling for motherhood, and for those people the sacrifices are less onerous and probably feel more like the sacrifices you would make for a career or an art - which doesn't mean you never have doubts, you just get something in return. I think my mother is one of those people (or maybe I'm just flattering myself) what with choosing to have seven kids and then choosing to go on to a career where she works with small children. I just think that, because our culture's been adjusting to effective female-controlled contraception for only a couple of generations, there is a significant, bigger than anyone would expect group of people who have kids that haven't got the calling for kids. And not all of them are the obvious "well, she locked them in a closet and starved them/ he beats them" shouldn't-have-had-kids type (for that matter, someone can have the calling for kids and still abuse them, due to all sorts of circumstances starting with mental illness as the most obvious

[mothwentbad]

But those are stats... Do you think that there could be any way to beat the numbers? Not that it's automatically worthwhile for you to try just because it might be possible. I guess there's a point at which it's just shacking up and mooching on health insurance for a while and you wouldn't even identify it by the same word anymore, I don't know.

Maybe I should do something in my corner of the world about all of that, but I don't like housework either. But I might have some long-term draw towards getting married eventually that you don't.

[teratologist]

The thing with a relationship, in my book, is this

[mothwentbad]

That metaphor might have various degrees of applicability depending on the circumstances. While I'm not one for dogmatically staying the course in all but the most fucked up cases, I'm not sure it really has to be like you say in general.

But on the other hand, I'm not really living a counterexample. I guess I just have an accumulating sense of unease and dissatisfaction with being loose and nominally self-sufficient. Then again, I'm male so statistically, I'm the life leech in a hetero relationship, so I would be prone to feel that way. I guess I try to be aware of that and make corrections, but I'm not sure that it's been to the point where it would be sane for a fully self-respecting woman to get in on the deal.

[teratologist]

Well, there's two separate issues here. I don't really see what's in it for anybody, aside from the part where it's worse for women.

I mean, there is something to be said for comfort and stability, but, I'm just not sure it's all that much, all told.

[mothwentbad]

I don't know. I think I'd appreciate it, if there were someone who was really all that awesomesauce in my life. I guess I can cross that illusory bridge when I hypothetically come to it. Maybe I just like the idea of a wife, but now I'm all modern and I don't even know what that would even mean anymore. :-P