Sorry for the bit of lateness! I'm trying to sell my car and my work schedule isn't helping.
I totally get you. For the longest time this is the exact same thing that I believed. It does make sense for me that the ILU served to have the narrative purpose of closing off Buffy's fear of romantic love (which I could say she utilized in season 8 with Xander?). Perhaps though maybe it wasn't fear of romantic love, but just fear of loving period. She could love Dawn and Giles, Willow and Xander, but those people were safe to love. Finally opening herself to other people may been closer to what type of love Buffy was afraid of.
With me coming to see the story a bit differently and because we don't have any real clarification, you could say that she wasn't afraid to finally love romantically again (though I would argue that she might have already loved Riley and that she wasn't just afraid of romantic love) and to finally say it, but there really wasn't actual feelings of love to back it up. Spike maybe opened her heart to the idea, but not towards him. To say that she meant it (and the Buffy lover part of me wants to scream that she did) would mean that moment would have to live in a vacuum in my opinion.
Also, I feel like this is all fan wank. Joss, while he can be brilliant, sometimes he just doesn't think things through. Maybe to him she meant it in that moment and the next she didn't, but in real life it doesn't work that way and many people wouldn't believe it.
Perhaps he didn't believe Buffy's arc was over either. Just on hold? I really don't know.
But all what you said is very true, though it's hard for me to see it that way again. I want to, but it is very hard. I do believe Buffy had powerful emotions towards Spike at that time, but...
Perhaps though maybe it wasn't fear of romantic love, but just fear of loving period. She could love Dawn and Giles, Willow and Xander, but those people were safe to love. Finally opening herself to other people may been closer to what type of love Buffy was afraid of.
Yeah, that's part of what I was trying to say but didn't clarify. It's definitely opening up to people that she fears, but she has this problem especially with romantic relationships because of her past experiences with them. She fears opening her heart to a lover more than she fears it with family/friends because those are the relationships that burned her(especially Angel), but I agree that Chosen is about learning to open herself to love in general, not just romantically.
you could say that she wasn't afraid to finally love romantically again (though I would argue that she might have already loved Riley and that she wasn't just afraid of romantic love) and to finally say it, but there really wasn't actual feelings of love to back it up
I do think she probably loved Riley, but I don't think she was able to really open up to him. Anyway, it doesn't make sense to me that Chosen would be about her overcoming her fear of love and *not* have her mean it. Saying ILU is meaningless if she doesn't love the person she's saying it to. There is no emotional risk there, so saying it in such a situation doesn't suggest that she has overcome her fear. If anything it would mean she *hasn't* done so, if she can only say she loves people when she doesn't really.
Also, I feel like this is all fan wank
Well, it is :P But so is the conclusion that she did *not* love Spike. Without text to make things crystal clear, *any* interpretation is fanwanking. What I said above is just the reading that makes the most sense to me. You don't have to agree with me,though. I understand people see things differently.
Perhaps he didn't believe Buffy's arc was over either. Just on hold? I really don't know.
I don't know, either. At any rate, it had to be a conclusion for her arc *in the show*, regardless of if he wanted to do the comics back then or not. So it had to wrap things up for viewers who hadn't read the comics that didn't exist at the time, many of whom wouldn't read them even if/when they were made.
But I sympathize with how you feel. I felt that way myself for a while. I hope the comics haven't ruined the show permanently for you. Just remember it doesn't work as canon, hopefully you'll feel better about things :)
Shot, I didn't clarify very well. I meant, Buffy meant the ILU but not romantically. You're right, if she didn't mean it in some way than there wouldn't be any meaning to it. And no resolution.
Agree on Riley.
Fan wank can be fun and I admire people who have been fan wanking for years since the end of the show (10 years). I've only been doing it for 2 years and it's exhausting. The odd thing, as I've said before, I saw it your way after my first watch through back in 2010. It's only after time and re-watching and seeing what Joss did with the comics, and reading a lot of discussion on the matter that have changed my perception.
I wrote a huge post on Buffy loving Spike back before season 9 really got into it on Buffy forums. I was really adamant about it.
I've kinda of lost Buffy's arc I admit. Perhaps I need to re-watch the show.
No, I don't think it's permanent damage. I'm dismissing the comics more each day. And I still love Spuffy.
I totally get you. For the longest time this is the exact same thing that I believed. It does make sense for me that the ILU served to have the narrative purpose of closing off Buffy's fear of romantic love (which I could say she utilized in season 8 with Xander?). Perhaps though maybe it wasn't fear of romantic love, but just fear of loving period. She could love Dawn and Giles, Willow and Xander, but those people were safe to love. Finally opening herself to other people may been closer to what type of love Buffy was afraid of.
With me coming to see the story a bit differently and because we don't have any real clarification, you could say that she wasn't afraid to finally love romantically again (though I would argue that she might have already loved Riley and that she wasn't just afraid of romantic love) and to finally say it, but there really wasn't actual feelings of love to back it up. Spike maybe opened her heart to the idea, but not towards him. To say that she meant it (and the Buffy lover part of me wants to scream that she did) would mean that moment would have to live in a vacuum in my opinion.
Also, I feel like this is all fan wank. Joss, while he can be brilliant, sometimes he just doesn't think things through. Maybe to him she meant it in that moment and the next she didn't, but in real life it doesn't work that way and many people wouldn't believe it.
Perhaps he didn't believe Buffy's arc was over either. Just on hold? I really don't know.
But all what you said is very true, though it's hard for me to see it that way again. I want to, but it is very hard. I do believe Buffy had powerful emotions towards Spike at that time, but...
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Perhaps though maybe it wasn't fear of romantic love, but just fear of loving period. She could love Dawn and Giles, Willow and Xander, but those people were safe to love. Finally opening herself to other people may been closer to what type of love Buffy was afraid of.
Yeah, that's part of what I was trying to say but didn't clarify. It's definitely opening up to people that she fears, but she has this problem especially with romantic relationships because of her past experiences with them. She fears opening her heart to a lover more than she fears it with family/friends because those are the relationships that burned her(especially Angel), but I agree that Chosen is about learning to open herself to love in general, not just romantically.
you could say that she wasn't afraid to finally love romantically again (though I would argue that she might have already loved Riley and that she wasn't just afraid of romantic love) and to finally say it, but there really wasn't actual feelings of love to back it up
I do think she probably loved Riley, but I don't think she was able to really open up to him. Anyway, it doesn't make sense to me that Chosen would be about her overcoming her fear of love and *not* have her mean it. Saying ILU is meaningless if she doesn't love the person she's saying it to. There is no emotional risk there, so saying it in such a situation doesn't suggest that she has overcome her fear. If anything it would mean she *hasn't* done so, if she can only say she loves people when she doesn't really.
Also, I feel like this is all fan wank
Well, it is :P But so is the conclusion that she did *not* love Spike. Without text to make things crystal clear, *any* interpretation is fanwanking. What I said above is just the reading that makes the most sense to me. You don't have to agree with me,though. I understand people see things differently.
Perhaps he didn't believe Buffy's arc was over either. Just on hold? I really don't know.
I don't know, either. At any rate, it had to be a conclusion for her arc *in the show*, regardless of if he wanted to do the comics back then or not. So it had to wrap things up for viewers who hadn't read the comics that didn't exist at the time, many of whom wouldn't read them even if/when they were made.
But I sympathize with how you feel. I felt that way myself for a while. I hope the comics haven't ruined the show permanently for you. Just remember it doesn't work as canon, hopefully you'll feel better about things :)
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Agree on Riley.
Fan wank can be fun and I admire people who have been fan wanking for years since the end of the show (10 years). I've only been doing it for 2 years and it's exhausting. The odd thing, as I've said before, I saw it your way after my first watch through back in 2010. It's only after time and re-watching and seeing what Joss did with the comics, and reading a lot of discussion on the matter that have changed my perception.
I wrote a huge post on Buffy loving Spike back before season 9 really got into it on Buffy forums. I was really adamant about it.
I've kinda of lost Buffy's arc I admit. Perhaps I need to re-watch the show.
No, I don't think it's permanent damage. I'm dismissing the comics more each day. And I still love Spuffy.
Thank you for your worry though! ;)
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