I think I now understand why you are unable to comprehend what I am talking about. You are so hopelessly anthrocentric that you cannot possibly conceive of an animal far larger, far longer lived, more powerful, and ultimately, possibly wiser than humans, that might not care to die in senseless political struggles for the sake of those humans. And how does this make them automatically "evil"? And as I said in the original post,, there is no reason such more realistic "intelligent" dragons would not be loyal to their riders, and would not fight as earnestly as possible for their rider's side, but simply not to the point of killing themselves for intangible and petty human values or killing other dragons for the same.
Do you think such creatures would be so stupid not to realize they would eventually become obsolete, and probably then, whith superior human weaponry,would very well be slaughtered because of their inherent danger to man, and the cost to feed them.
You simply can't have it both ways, Dragons intelligent enough to be bosom companions, yet stupid enough to be manipulated and led to their deaths for petty human goals.
This is the salient shortcoming of this book and virtually all dragon rider tales that came before it. But unlike many of those in the past, this is unique enough that it is easy to overlook the "humans first" mentality that could never really make sense if these fantasy worlds and their huamn and dragon inhabitants are critically examined.
In truth, I have indeed written a rather unusal book in which "real" dragons have inhabited this real world in the past, and are responsible for the world's dragon legends. And no, these are not the standard, puppy dog dragons who can't wait to kill themselves to please their human master. It is based on the premise that the God of the Bible is "real" and these dragons are the Seraphim, which in Hebrew means "fiery, flying, serpents. I hope it will be out this year, but it is a very difficult task to tie all of the historical ends together and make it work, so I know where Naomi is coming from, and appreciate it all the more.
Of course I have read Tolkien, and while some of his short stories can be fun, LOTR and Hobbit have about the most ridiculous and contrived endings I have ever read in a book intended for adults (oops, Hobbit was a children's book).
How could any adult not see the absurdity of the fact Sauron's whole empire existed solely on the fact that the Ring must not be destroyed -- yet the one place in all of Middle Earth, in fact, right in the middle of his own Kingdom, where the ring could be destroyed he left completely unguarded. Consider his overwhelming superiority in numbers, I would imagine he could have spared a fell beast or two to guard the mountain. Jeez, how stupid is that?
And The Hobbit. Okay it was written for kids, but c'mon. Smaug is only defeated because a "little bird" happpens to overhear Smaug reveal his only weakness, and tells the Bard where to shoot him. Give me a break.
The only reason such silly, unbelievable nonsense could be considered "good", is because our English teachers told us it was in our formative years. Tolkien is much like the similar hoax of so-called "modern art". It may only be "chicken scratches" but if the right critic convinces enough ignorant people that it is a masterpiece...... then it becomes one.
*laughs madly* barbarian_qulan is anthrocentric, yet you're the one who's been refusing to accept that having human-level intelligence might not make dragons think and feel the same way as humans?
I very much disagree with you about tolkien. A lot of the time, with his plots, Tolkien tries to evoke the sense (though not the details) of english and nordic myth rather than absolute realism. I recognise that this isn't a quality you may enjoy, but that doesn't make it without value. Rather, for tolkien and for a number of people who enjoy his work, the references and atomosphere of the mythic past is one of the most enjoyable things about the LOTR and the Hobbit (and the Silmarillion, though that's a slightly different case). My point is, in any case, that it's not "silly unbelieveable nonsense" any more than the legends of Arthur or the tales of the bible or the prose edda are silly unbelieveable nonsense. They're meant to operate on a different frame of reference than realistic works.
That said, I find it rather insulting to refer to people who enjoy tolkien's works as "ignorant" because they enjoy different things in fiction than you do.
I'm surprised to see someone still reading the "old" posts. Yes that was me on UM, and I still post there. There was not enough character space to use my full posting "name".
The "biblical" dragon book will be out this year. My interest in these novels has become a slight distraction, but they are similar to my own ideas of "dragons" in our "real" world, though in an earlier period, and limited to what could be possible within the parameters of archaeological evidence.
Do you think such creatures would be so stupid not to realize they would eventually become obsolete, and probably then, whith superior human weaponry,would very well be slaughtered because of their inherent danger to man, and the cost to feed them.
You simply can't have it both ways, Dragons intelligent enough to be bosom companions, yet stupid enough to be manipulated and led to their deaths for petty human goals.
This is the salient shortcoming of this book and virtually all dragon rider tales that came before it. But unlike many of those in the past, this is unique enough that it is easy to overlook the "humans first" mentality that could never really make sense if these fantasy worlds and their huamn and dragon inhabitants are critically examined.
In truth, I have indeed written a rather unusal book in which "real" dragons have inhabited this real world in the past, and are responsible for the world's dragon legends. And no, these are not the standard, puppy dog dragons who can't wait to kill themselves to please their human master. It is based on the premise that the God of the Bible is "real" and these dragons are the Seraphim, which in Hebrew means "fiery, flying, serpents. I hope it will be out this year, but it is a very difficult task to tie all of the historical ends together and make it work, so I know where Naomi is coming from, and appreciate it all the more.
Of course I have read Tolkien, and while some of his short stories can be fun, LOTR and Hobbit have about the most ridiculous and contrived endings I have ever read in a book intended for adults (oops, Hobbit was a children's book).
How could any adult not see the absurdity of the fact Sauron's whole empire existed solely on the fact that the Ring must not be destroyed -- yet the one place in all of Middle Earth, in fact, right in the middle of his own Kingdom, where the ring could be destroyed he left completely unguarded. Consider his overwhelming superiority in numbers, I would imagine he could have spared a fell beast or two to guard the mountain. Jeez, how stupid is that?
And The Hobbit. Okay it was written for kids, but c'mon. Smaug is only defeated because a "little bird" happpens to overhear Smaug reveal his only weakness, and tells the Bard where to shoot him. Give me a break.
The only reason such silly, unbelievable nonsense could be considered "good", is because our English teachers told us it was in our formative years. Tolkien is much like the similar hoax of so-called "modern art". It may only be "chicken scratches" but if the right critic convinces enough ignorant people that it is a masterpiece...... then it becomes one.
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That said, I find it rather insulting to refer to people who enjoy tolkien's works as "ignorant" because they enjoy different things in fiction than you do.
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How's the book buisness treating ya?
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The "biblical" dragon book will be out this year. My interest in these novels has become a slight distraction, but they are similar to my own ideas of "dragons" in our "real" world, though in an earlier period, and limited to what could be possible within the parameters of archaeological evidence.
DC
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