Damn socialists

May 18, 2006 10:28

The Indy had an article in this weeks edition about "net neutrality". In this article the author, Fiona Morgan, regurgitates all the usual socialist garbage about how Big Bro needs to protect us poor Proles from the evil Barons of capitalism - except she gets a bit creative, and coins the term "Technobaron". Anyways, I wrote a fairly long letter to ( Read more... )

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talythius May 19 2006, 06:07:06 UTC
Your letter was beautiful.
It's very admirable to see you speaking your point of view to the public, whatever the view and public.
The writing style and references seem intelligent and informed.

I think you can get away with your "The United Soviet States of America". Mostly, because that's the type of terminology found throughout the Indy's article's, which also hurts their credibility.
Their target audience being the more "hippy", commune-ist, anti-capitalist, vaguely-informed population. People who don't fully understand the implications of what they support, but think that it sounds nice: the Idealistic. I fall into this category on issues I don't know as much about, as it is the ideal (peace, happiness, sharing, etc.) without research. This ideal may later be that which underlies the hoped-for end result of a realistic plan of action, though often enough the realism is lacking. Not to say that the spirit behind such drives is bad at all. As well, it can be quite difficult to say which is worse between those and the people offering bad soultions or the same solutions that haven't worked.

I'm back and forth on the taxation issue. Some people do have ungodly amounts of money and taxes which barely affect them could be substantially beneficial to many. Ignoring that happiness is not monetary, thus, why should we need their money? To raise their taxes is moving toward the more socialist society. I don't think the government should be telling us what to do with our money if we haven't volunteered willingly to such. Though, I think there is more of a problem with what the government is already doing with all the money they take from us, as well as, the money they take from no-where-land. Creating more debt and making our currency less valueable.

I don't know the quickest way to that self-governing idea. Was it Jefferson that was quoted with the idea of the people in government paying their own money to run it, not collecting pay from the people, governing because that's what they want to do, and only having authority over those who choose them to, others choosing their own preferred officials, etcetera.

To end my babble, your input has made me question my previous thoughts on this net-neutrality issue, if only to re-inforce the idea that a revolution is sorely needed, if anything is to be done at all.

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telemakh0s May 19 2006, 12:58:07 UTC
Thanks for the feed back :)

Also, I do realize that a lot of people who support these kinds of laws have good intentions, which is why I feel it necessary to educate them. Good intentions are nothing unless you educate yourself about the reality of a situation, and so many people will just fall for any sorry line so long as it sounds nice and fluffy or idealistic.

As for "Some people do have ungodly amounts of money and taxes which barely affect" this is bullshit. The top 1% richest people in america pay 50% of the federal income tax, and the top 5% pay 2/3 of the total income tax. It's just silly to say they aren't "paying thier fair share". But this is a moot point, as I feel that taxation is simply theft organized by the institutionalization of conquest over the people and property in a certain territory.

a revolution is sorely needed, if anything is to be done at all.

Amen.

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thales1940 May 21 2006, 04:31:22 UTC
I just popped over to see who you were after I got deleted on Philosophy. Their mods don't like me I'm a Randian, got my BA in Phil 32 years ago, after reading Rands Intro to Object. Epistemology. She is the perfect balance to Thales, they are resposible for the discovery of reason, through the integration of inductive (ordinal) logic to deductive (cardinal) logic. The posts by Lane and Ambrosia or whatever her name is were excellent.

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(sorry... was logged in under friends name...) telemakh0s May 21 2006, 17:18:09 UTC
I'm not sure I remember the discussion on philosophy which you are refering to, but I do know that I'm not a big fan on Rand. I think she's just an egotist, and a pretty shotty author. Her philosophies aren't extremely consistent either, and she's has a hard time living up to her own standards.

Not to mention the creeky cultishness surrounding her and her books...

Anyways, glad you stopped by, and sorry you got banned.

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) thales1940 May 23 2006, 03:52:57 UTC
It was about a post asking if logic was valid which generated a great discussion. I posted a slam on Kants analytic/synthetic dichotomy by pointing out that a thing and its deff are not interchangable. I Am Lane, who is studying Law, but majored in Phil saw Kant in a new way because of my post but shrtly after the Kantian mods deleted our small section, not banned.

Sorry about the Rand stuff, you sounded rather libertarian, which has a lot of Rand (individual rights) in it. I still would recoment Rand's Intro to Object Epist. It has the power to valdate cardinal thinking, she explains how cardinal numbers and cardinal concepts have the same kind of certainty, as opposed to ordinal numbers and thinking.

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) telemakh0s May 23 2006, 13:03:49 UTC
On Rand; I've read Atlas Shrugged (of course), The Fountainhead and a collection of her essays titled "The Voice of Reason". I'm not very fond of her "objectivism", I don't find it to be very objective... Anyways, I do realize that a lot of libertarians like the way Rand talks, but I think it's mostly superficial in that she drones on and on about how wonderful, colorful and cuddly capitalism is, but her understanding of it is a bit slim IMO. I.e. she talks so much about laissez-faire capitalism, but as soon as her books start getting boot-legged she riles up the full fury of the state intellectual property apparatus, which isn't very laissez-faire to me...

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) thales1940 May 24 2006, 01:55:34 UTC
Rand has to be examined with care, taking precautions not to discount her on inessentials. She is exactly right on her correction to Aristotelian essences, moving them from metphysics to epistemology. This one move corrects the mind/body dichotomy that makes doing philosophy impossible. Think about it, the science of mind is epistemology, the science of matter is metaphysics. Knowledge requires their integration.

She was a jerk when it came to being over protective of her ideas. I am putting important ideas on the net in the hope of their being seen for their value. If someone understands and goes with an idea, we all gain. I love the net.

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) telemakh0s May 24 2006, 03:50:56 UTC
I'll conceed to your first paragraph.

The second, I would advise that one be careful when promoting a spotty philosopher without pointing out the spottiness, as some weaker minds might think that if the philosopher was right in one aspect, they might as well be right in others; this is dangerous as I feel many of Rands philosophies, esp. her political ones, are just off base enough to cause contradictions and lead one off in the wrong direction.

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) thales1940 May 24 2006, 06:44:00 UTC
There is nothing "spotty" about "reason". As a concept, using Rand's epist., reason is as exact as the unit 1 is for mathematics. I have never found an error in her fundamentals. At the same time, she was not the best example when it came to her own life.

Did you know that she discovered a relation between epistemology and mathematics that unites them at their base making each reliant on the other for consistency. Very much like double entry bookkeeping.

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) telemakh0s May 24 2006, 12:53:07 UTC
I'm not going to go over every flaw in her philosophies, but I will point out that the critiques of Rand are duely documented.

A page with a plethora of links

Another list of criticisms

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) thales1940 May 26 2006, 02:03:34 UTC
There was a time when I read every critical thing on Rand that I could find, none, NONE of it substantial. I would be interested in anything that goes to fundamentals. What I remember was arguments trying to say that reason was not reasonable.

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Re: (sorry... was logged in under friends name...) telemakh0s May 26 2006, 04:23:03 UTC
Ok, I'll play along some more...

There is nothing "spotty" about "reason".

When did we actually start talking about reason? I was talking about the writings of a person. I agree the pure reason is not spotty, but your statement assumes that Rand is purely reasnable and I posit that there are (at the very least, potential) flaws in her arguments.

Why I'm Not an Objectivist cuts pretty deep into the fundamentals if you ask me. It cuts down into Rands (Aristotles) conception of universals and particulars, as well as her conception of free will, etc.

Anyways, I'm tired of talking about Rand, almost all Randians seem to be able to do is assert that she is right without explaining or discussing the issues, like this recent conversation I had with someone who simply refused to even discuss the issue, let alone consider the possible alternative ideas.

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