Hee! My post was actually prompted by internal musings brought about by your post on why you like slash *g*.
Anyway, there is indeed a big distinction between discussing slash, good slash, and good writing. Good writing isn't something I wanted to address in this post, but I see it's hard to distinguish from discussing good slash in some ways. If the characterisation or the premise is too removed from our own preferences, then it's hard to consider it 'good'.
I saw something else today that contributed to the mix of thoughts I had - it was some sort of mpreg fic, I think. Anyway, I couldn't for the life of me work out why that author would want to see those characters in an mpreg situation. Then I realised, it didn't matter what my rection was - she was writing it for herself. She enjoyed it, and that's what mattered.
No, I wasn't going to read it, but plenty of people will! And they'll love it. It will totally satisfy them. And suddenly I felt very good for them, happy that they were doing something that rocks their world.
It wasn't my choice of genre, but it works for them. A LOT of readers wouldn't touch my genres with a ten foot pole! That's okay.
I agree with you on the characteristation thing - I prefer my Jim to be behaving in certain readily identified ways. I'll pick and choose between stories, knocking back the AUs one night, devouring them on another. *shrug* I'm not saying I'll suddenly start reading the fairytale allegories, for instance, if I'm not in the mood. I tend not to enjoy them at any time, but that's just me. For other people they are fabulous things.
The point is, I think... I think... *g*, that if two men discussing their emotions together over a candlelit dinner is unlikely in someone's real life, it doesn't matter if a slash story has them doing it. It makes the author happy, it's what she wants to write. And I know that's obvious - I'm just getting it properly into my headspace. ;-)
Eep. Well I hope I'm not one of the aggressive, negative guys you mentioned above. I mean, yes, I do have likes and dislikes, as does everyone, but mine aren't any more valid than anyone else's; they're just mine, is all. I won't even say that my great preference for gritty, realistic stories is due to my status as a gay man, because I'm certain that if we polled gay men in fandom we'd get wildly different responses.
If the characterization or the premise is too removed from our own preferences, then it's hard to consider it 'good'.
Eh, I'm not sure I can totally agree with that, at least not without a redefinition of 'good'. If it's based on an extant source, then I think there is most definitely characterization in fic that either works or doesn't, because it's based on something. That doesn't mean there aren't droves of women who won't love it, but writing quality aside, those characters with those names arrive at a story with their own personalities. This isn't a straitjacket however, as I've seen all kinds of great divergence from canon characterization work, but the options aren't infinite.
But if by 'good' we mean only that "someone out there likes it", then the concepts of good and bad lose all meaning. Which is probably your point, isn't it? lol
I hope I'm not one of the aggressive, negative guys you mentioned above
Nope *g*.
the concepts of good and bad lose all meaning
Quite likely. I have my own preferences - and they seem to match in well with your own, but that's beside the point - and my version of 'good' is idiosyncratic to *me*. Yours is of value to you, and so on. I've seen stories recced from here to eternity that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, but they're considered 'good' by a lot of other people.
I'm not defending the indefensible. There are always stories that will be really, really poor, for all the reasons you've mentioned.
I'm simply saying that we pick and choose what we like according to our preferences, and my preferences had been coloured by a standard that I don't think is valid.
Anyway, there is indeed a big distinction between discussing slash, good slash, and good writing. Good writing isn't something I wanted to address in this post, but I see it's hard to distinguish from discussing good slash in some ways. If the characterisation or the premise is too removed from our own preferences, then it's hard to consider it 'good'.
I saw something else today that contributed to the mix of thoughts I had - it was some sort of mpreg fic, I think. Anyway, I couldn't for the life of me work out why that author would want to see those characters in an mpreg situation. Then I realised, it didn't matter what my rection was - she was writing it for herself. She enjoyed it, and that's what mattered.
No, I wasn't going to read it, but plenty of people will! And they'll love it. It will totally satisfy them. And suddenly I felt very good for them, happy that they were doing something that rocks their world.
It wasn't my choice of genre, but it works for them. A LOT of readers wouldn't touch my genres with a ten foot pole! That's okay.
I agree with you on the characteristation thing - I prefer my Jim to be behaving in certain readily identified ways. I'll pick and choose between stories, knocking back the AUs one night, devouring them on another. *shrug* I'm not saying I'll suddenly start reading the fairytale allegories, for instance, if I'm not in the mood. I tend not to enjoy them at any time, but that's just me. For other people they are fabulous things.
The point is, I think... I think... *g*, that if two men discussing their emotions together over a candlelit dinner is unlikely in someone's real life, it doesn't matter if a slash story has them doing it. It makes the author happy, it's what she wants to write. And I know that's obvious - I'm just getting it properly into my headspace. ;-)
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If the characterization or the premise is too removed from our own preferences, then it's hard to consider it 'good'.
Eh, I'm not sure I can totally agree with that, at least not without a redefinition of 'good'. If it's based on an extant source, then I think there is most definitely characterization in fic that either works or doesn't, because it's based on something. That doesn't mean there aren't droves of women who won't love it, but writing quality aside, those characters with those names arrive at a story with their own personalities. This isn't a straitjacket however, as I've seen all kinds of great divergence from canon characterization work, but the options aren't infinite.
But if by 'good' we mean only that "someone out there likes it", then the concepts of good and bad lose all meaning. Which is probably your point, isn't it? lol
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Nope *g*.
the concepts of good and bad lose all meaning
Quite likely. I have my own preferences - and they seem to match in well with your own, but that's beside the point - and my version of 'good' is idiosyncratic to *me*. Yours is of value to you, and so on. I've seen stories recced from here to eternity that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, but they're considered 'good' by a lot of other people.
I'm not defending the indefensible. There are always stories that will be really, really poor, for all the reasons you've mentioned.
I'm simply saying that we pick and choose what we like according to our preferences, and my preferences had been coloured by a standard that I don't think is valid.
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That makes total sense. ::nods::
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