Fire & Hemlock times four
Ugh. More on F&H--will stop talking about this one day when my thoughts aren't all over the place.
Post from comm (http://community.livejournal.com/dianawynnejones/71101.html)
It made me wonder if Ann had been in the funeral that Polly had gatecrashed, and whether she had noticed Polly there. I've always wondered about Ann's character. With her being a Leroy, was she put in the ochestra with Tom to keep an eye on him? Or was it coincidential that she met up with Tom to be a part of the Dumas Quartet?
I don't remember Tom being mentioned in contact with Polly during the first funeral, and I think I read Tom as being the one to pick & chose who he wanted as part of the quartet. And of course, Polly was the one who decided in the end, just which three were to be chosen. Ann's role in the whole story is much more powerful than I had imagined at the beginning.
*****
Not quite sure whether I had already posted this somewhere on one of the confusing entries I posted these past few days -o-;;; so...
CREDIT ( amaebi @ http://community.livejournal.com/dianawynnejones/44887.html )
3. How can Polly and Tom stay together? By living in Nowhere? How is that possible?
It's a logic thing, and also a result of the curse Laurel put on Tom. Polly and Tom made a Nowhere. If Polly and Tom can't be together in Here, then they can be together nowhere, and there's a Nowhere for them to be together in. If they can't be together Nowhere, then they must be able to be together somewhere. Somewhere is Here.
*****
More randomness on Obah Cypt, CREDIT queenelectric @ http://community.livejournal.com/dianawynnejones/9458.html
Okay, I googled "Obah Cypt", and it led me to this (http://www.leemac.freeserve.co.uk/answerslast1.htm) page, where if you scroll abuot 1/3 of the way down you find this:
From Marie Denley
* In preparing a recent lecture on Fire and Hemlock for my Children's Fantasy Literature course, I looked closely at names, titles etc. and their sources. (Well, I am a medievalist trained partly by your husband, whom I admire just as much as I admire you, so you can expect that kind of minute pedantry!) (1) The 'heroic' titles: is 'Tan' anything to do with the Welsh for 'Fire', as a sort of honorific - 'the fiery one'? (2) Does 'Coul' have any relation to Finn Mac Cool, as a prominent Celtic hero? (3) I'm stumped about the origins of the other heroic names of the Dumas Quartet members. Are they out of your head? (4) I'm also stumped with 'Obah Cypt'. I keep wanting it to be either an anagram, or related to some other form of wordplay/word-and-idea associative pattern, devices you use prominently in the book (e.g. with the permutations of Nowhere, or with the poisonous-plant female names, Ivy and Laurel). I've always been hopeless at anagrams in crosswords.However, my students weren't able to spot anything so I feel slightly less obtuse. I have read around quite a lot to try to solve these; I apologise if I've missed an obvious source. Perhaps I shouldn't be nit-picking like this, but Fire and Hemlock is such a patterned book that you offer the temptation.(For example, I assumed that Hunsdon House was the eighties version of Huntly Bank from the ballad.) Writing that lecture was probably the most enjoyable experience of my career. Thank you for writing a superbly rewarding novel, and for being willing to answer questions.
Diana's Reply
How nice that you were trained by John. Ok, answers: 1. Like most things in FIRE AND HEMLOCK 'Tan' has a double source. It is partly the Welsh word for fire, but it is also an adaptation of the medieval 'Dan' as in 'Dan Chaucer'. 2. 'Coul' does probably reflect Finn Mac Cool, but it also is 'cool!' in the way kids use it. I think there are other origins in there, but I'm not sure what. 3. The other names of the quartet are indeed out of my head, but I usually find there is some good reason for names, like reflecting 'Hannibal' and 'audacity'. 'Thare' defeats me too, though. 4. the Obah Cypt first occurred to me in a totally different piece of writing which will probably always remain as a five-finger exercise, though it gave certain things to the stories the quartet wrote. 'Obah' is an adaptation of 'Obeah', the West Indian form of (black, quite often) magic. 'Cypt' is a sort of anagram of 'ptyx' which seems to be a sort of holy vessel or container in use on Christian altars. So the whole thing means 'a container for dark magic'. 5. Yes, but 'Hunsdon House' is also a very formal country dance.
... and this:
From jenni
* about the book fire and hemlock, who is that woman Laurel suppose to be, like what kind of a moster is she and did she die?? what happened to the people after the car(horse) knocked into the rose bushes? what does the fire and hemlock picture signify? how did they overcome polly's charm
Diana's Reply
Laurel is the dreaded (and loved) immortal goddess who likes to carry off young men. She doesn't die. She has to take someone else's life to keep on living. The other people disappeared at the end when the car knocked over the rose bushes because they were immortals too and they were, for the moment, defeated. The fire and hemlock picture is the the thing called an Obah Cypt which was really a spell to enslave Mr Lynn's soul. Polly's charm was only a weak little opal. Strong magic can suck a thing like that dry in seconds.
*****
cuppatea's comment found a bit lower, same entry as above.
Hm. The hair bit makes sense. Now that I've read bad_kitten's link to the DWJ Q&A, I'm thinking that by giving the Obah Cypt/enslavement picture to Polly, he's made her the one who holds power over him - though of course, she wouldn't use it for the same nefarious purposes as Laurel.
But was the Obah Cypt enough to make the bargain, then? If so, then what of the little pictures Laurel collected: Were they part of the bargains for their lives, too, or did she just like to have a little gallery of her victims on the wall? It raises the interesting question of whether Seb's reason for photographing Polly was related. If only it hadn't been nearly 80 years till Laurel next needed a life, I would have thought that Seb was picking Polly as the one to give her life up for Laurel, which would have appealed to Laurel's sense of humor.
timorene replies:
Yes I wondered about the little gallery - but I assumed it was Laurel's amusement gallery so she could look at all the lives of the men she'd taken - there were no women there hey?
>> Hm. Interesting.
Post from comm (http://community.livejournal.com/dianawynnejones/71101.html)
It made me wonder if Ann had been in the funeral that Polly had gatecrashed, and whether she had noticed Polly there. I've always wondered about Ann's character. With her being a Leroy, was she put in the ochestra with Tom to keep an eye on him? Or was it coincidential that she met up with Tom to be a part of the Dumas Quartet?
I don't remember Tom being mentioned in contact with Polly during the first funeral, and I think I read Tom as being the one to pick & chose who he wanted as part of the quartet. And of course, Polly was the one who decided in the end, just which three were to be chosen. Ann's role in the whole story is much more powerful than I had imagined at the beginning.
*****
Not quite sure whether I had already posted this somewhere on one of the confusing entries I posted these past few days -o-;;; so...
CREDIT ( amaebi @ http://community.livejournal.com/dianawynnejones/44887.html )
3. How can Polly and Tom stay together? By living in Nowhere? How is that possible?
It's a logic thing, and also a result of the curse Laurel put on Tom. Polly and Tom made a Nowhere. If Polly and Tom can't be together in Here, then they can be together nowhere, and there's a Nowhere for them to be together in. If they can't be together Nowhere, then they must be able to be together somewhere. Somewhere is Here.
*****
More randomness on Obah Cypt, CREDIT queenelectric @ http://community.livejournal.com/dianawynnejones/9458.html
Okay, I googled "Obah Cypt", and it led me to this (http://www.leemac.freeserve.co.uk/answerslast1.htm) page, where if you scroll abuot 1/3 of the way down you find this:
From Marie Denley
* In preparing a recent lecture on Fire and Hemlock for my Children's Fantasy Literature course, I looked closely at names, titles etc. and their sources. (Well, I am a medievalist trained partly by your husband, whom I admire just as much as I admire you, so you can expect that kind of minute pedantry!) (1) The 'heroic' titles: is 'Tan' anything to do with the Welsh for 'Fire', as a sort of honorific - 'the fiery one'? (2) Does 'Coul' have any relation to Finn Mac Cool, as a prominent Celtic hero? (3) I'm stumped about the origins of the other heroic names of the Dumas Quartet members. Are they out of your head? (4) I'm also stumped with 'Obah Cypt'. I keep wanting it to be either an anagram, or related to some other form of wordplay/word-and-idea associative pattern, devices you use prominently in the book (e.g. with the permutations of Nowhere, or with the poisonous-plant female names, Ivy and Laurel). I've always been hopeless at anagrams in crosswords.However, my students weren't able to spot anything so I feel slightly less obtuse. I have read around quite a lot to try to solve these; I apologise if I've missed an obvious source. Perhaps I shouldn't be nit-picking like this, but Fire and Hemlock is such a patterned book that you offer the temptation.(For example, I assumed that Hunsdon House was the eighties version of Huntly Bank from the ballad.) Writing that lecture was probably the most enjoyable experience of my career. Thank you for writing a superbly rewarding novel, and for being willing to answer questions.
Diana's Reply
How nice that you were trained by John. Ok, answers: 1. Like most things in FIRE AND HEMLOCK 'Tan' has a double source. It is partly the Welsh word for fire, but it is also an adaptation of the medieval 'Dan' as in 'Dan Chaucer'. 2. 'Coul' does probably reflect Finn Mac Cool, but it also is 'cool!' in the way kids use it. I think there are other origins in there, but I'm not sure what. 3. The other names of the quartet are indeed out of my head, but I usually find there is some good reason for names, like reflecting 'Hannibal' and 'audacity'. 'Thare' defeats me too, though. 4. the Obah Cypt first occurred to me in a totally different piece of writing which will probably always remain as a five-finger exercise, though it gave certain things to the stories the quartet wrote. 'Obah' is an adaptation of 'Obeah', the West Indian form of (black, quite often) magic. 'Cypt' is a sort of anagram of 'ptyx' which seems to be a sort of holy vessel or container in use on Christian altars. So the whole thing means 'a container for dark magic'. 5. Yes, but 'Hunsdon House' is also a very formal country dance.
... and this:
From jenni
* about the book fire and hemlock, who is that woman Laurel suppose to be, like what kind of a moster is she and did she die?? what happened to the people after the car(horse) knocked into the rose bushes? what does the fire and hemlock picture signify? how did they overcome polly's charm
Diana's Reply
Laurel is the dreaded (and loved) immortal goddess who likes to carry off young men. She doesn't die. She has to take someone else's life to keep on living. The other people disappeared at the end when the car knocked over the rose bushes because they were immortals too and they were, for the moment, defeated. The fire and hemlock picture is the the thing called an Obah Cypt which was really a spell to enslave Mr Lynn's soul. Polly's charm was only a weak little opal. Strong magic can suck a thing like that dry in seconds.
*****
cuppatea's comment found a bit lower, same entry as above.
Hm. The hair bit makes sense. Now that I've read bad_kitten's link to the DWJ Q&A, I'm thinking that by giving the Obah Cypt/enslavement picture to Polly, he's made her the one who holds power over him - though of course, she wouldn't use it for the same nefarious purposes as Laurel.
But was the Obah Cypt enough to make the bargain, then? If so, then what of the little pictures Laurel collected: Were they part of the bargains for their lives, too, or did she just like to have a little gallery of her victims on the wall? It raises the interesting question of whether Seb's reason for photographing Polly was related. If only it hadn't been nearly 80 years till Laurel next needed a life, I would have thought that Seb was picking Polly as the one to give her life up for Laurel, which would have appealed to Laurel's sense of humor.
timorene replies:
Yes I wondered about the little gallery - but I assumed it was Laurel's amusement gallery so she could look at all the lives of the men she'd taken - there were no women there hey?
>> Hm. Interesting.