Did You Know There Are No Victims?
This conversation illustrates why I am not a believer in the Hare Krishna movement any longer.
On Facebook, a friend posts about a study of how people are quite successful at identifying criminals from a neutral looking group of men. A picture of O.J. Simpson was at the top of the article and mentioned. This friend has an acquaintance who is still a practicing devotee but outside of ISKCON. He's an "old" devotee, though, an original member from the days of the founder and has studied their scriptures extensively.
K. Dasa: OJ? OL'BUDDY? I met OJ at the Los Angeles Airport in '75 when he was making a Hertz commercial at the airport. I stopped him to sell him a Hare Krishna book and he was very nice and said he had some more of the books at home. OJ got screwed-up with that druggy white bimbo wife.
Me: Sure let's blame the victim because he's such a nice guy to other men but not people who are smaller and more vulnerable and under his power and control, available to take out his anger on so he can SEEM so nice to others.
K. Dasa: That drugged out bimbo was no victim. She was a user who abused OJ Simpson as long as she could and then dumped him for a young guy with cocaine. OJ Simpson did what many Muslim men would do, but I don't think druggy bimbos are better than Muslims.
Me: With all the DV complaints on record plus MURDER (I don't think many believe him to be innocent) I don't know how you can defend his behavior towards any woman, anywhere. Drug use means you ought to be physically abused? In what universe?
K. Dasa (shifting focus): They are all users and abusers getting their karma. Such are the ways of the materialistic people. Ultimately, there are no "victicms" for one who knows the conclusions of Vedic knowledge that everything in this is just action and reaction of karma. They had it coming, one way or the other. Karma is exact and precise. Krishna makes sure everyone gets the reaction to their actions. Everyone is simply victim of the senses because they are not yet adept at proper use of the senses.
Me: Oh great sage, karma doesn't exempt you from compassion or from making such horrible statements about women. And funny how my karma for being abused abruptly ended when I saw through the typical male-devotee-abuser lines and left my ex. Hmmmm, I think there may be more to the universe than your understanding of one set of scriptures of dubious authorship.
K. Dasa: You don't know. She could have been Hitler in her last life. You can't call victims unless you know their whole karmic story which YOU DO NOT.
Me: In this life, the abuser's actions are not justified by karma any more than Hitler's actions were. And there is no PROOF that karma and reincarnation exist. As a society we can only form laws and policies and grant compassion by what we see before us and a man abusing and killing a woman is inexcusable and not to be made light of in the manner that you did. If you'd like to review the qualities of a devotee, nowhere does it read that snarky comments about someone's tragedy are part of advanced devotee behavior. If your behavior is an example of your belief system, I am well out of it.
[Reference, for those who aren't readers of such literature: These qualities of a devotee, twenty-six in number, are listed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu:
1.kind to everyone, 2.does not quarrel with anyone, 3.fixed in the Absolute Truth, 4.equal to everyone, 5.faultless, 6.charitable, 7.mild, 8.clean, 9.simple, without material possession, 10.benevolent, 11.peaceful, 12.completely attached to Krsna, 13.has no material hankering, 14.meek, 15.steady, 16.self-controlled, 17.does not eat more than required, 18.sane, 19.respectful, 20.humble, 21.grave, 22.compassionate, 23.friendly, 24.poetic, 25.silent, 26.expert ]
I'll update if he keeps it going.
ETA:
K. Dasa: thats right we must see through the eyes of the state, the politically correct and the ignorant - not the scriptures.............
Me: It's an illusion that those who wrote the scriptures knew better. :) But if you want scriptures, here are the qualities of a devotee: (pasted above list)
K. Dasa: point made..
On Facebook, a friend posts about a study of how people are quite successful at identifying criminals from a neutral looking group of men. A picture of O.J. Simpson was at the top of the article and mentioned. This friend has an acquaintance who is still a practicing devotee but outside of ISKCON. He's an "old" devotee, though, an original member from the days of the founder and has studied their scriptures extensively.
K. Dasa: OJ? OL'BUDDY? I met OJ at the Los Angeles Airport in '75 when he was making a Hertz commercial at the airport. I stopped him to sell him a Hare Krishna book and he was very nice and said he had some more of the books at home. OJ got screwed-up with that druggy white bimbo wife.
Me: Sure let's blame the victim because he's such a nice guy to other men but not people who are smaller and more vulnerable and under his power and control, available to take out his anger on so he can SEEM so nice to others.
K. Dasa: That drugged out bimbo was no victim. She was a user who abused OJ Simpson as long as she could and then dumped him for a young guy with cocaine. OJ Simpson did what many Muslim men would do, but I don't think druggy bimbos are better than Muslims.
Me: With all the DV complaints on record plus MURDER (I don't think many believe him to be innocent) I don't know how you can defend his behavior towards any woman, anywhere. Drug use means you ought to be physically abused? In what universe?
K. Dasa (shifting focus): They are all users and abusers getting their karma. Such are the ways of the materialistic people. Ultimately, there are no "victicms" for one who knows the conclusions of Vedic knowledge that everything in this is just action and reaction of karma. They had it coming, one way or the other. Karma is exact and precise. Krishna makes sure everyone gets the reaction to their actions. Everyone is simply victim of the senses because they are not yet adept at proper use of the senses.
Me: Oh great sage, karma doesn't exempt you from compassion or from making such horrible statements about women. And funny how my karma for being abused abruptly ended when I saw through the typical male-devotee-abuser lines and left my ex. Hmmmm, I think there may be more to the universe than your understanding of one set of scriptures of dubious authorship.
K. Dasa: You don't know. She could have been Hitler in her last life. You can't call victims unless you know their whole karmic story which YOU DO NOT.
Me: In this life, the abuser's actions are not justified by karma any more than Hitler's actions were. And there is no PROOF that karma and reincarnation exist. As a society we can only form laws and policies and grant compassion by what we see before us and a man abusing and killing a woman is inexcusable and not to be made light of in the manner that you did. If you'd like to review the qualities of a devotee, nowhere does it read that snarky comments about someone's tragedy are part of advanced devotee behavior. If your behavior is an example of your belief system, I am well out of it.
[Reference, for those who aren't readers of such literature: These qualities of a devotee, twenty-six in number, are listed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu:
1.kind to everyone, 2.does not quarrel with anyone, 3.fixed in the Absolute Truth, 4.equal to everyone, 5.faultless, 6.charitable, 7.mild, 8.clean, 9.simple, without material possession, 10.benevolent, 11.peaceful, 12.completely attached to Krsna, 13.has no material hankering, 14.meek, 15.steady, 16.self-controlled, 17.does not eat more than required, 18.sane, 19.respectful, 20.humble, 21.grave, 22.compassionate, 23.friendly, 24.poetic, 25.silent, 26.expert ]
I'll update if he keeps it going.
ETA:
K. Dasa: thats right we must see through the eyes of the state, the politically correct and the ignorant - not the scriptures.............
Me: It's an illusion that those who wrote the scriptures knew better. :) But if you want scriptures, here are the qualities of a devotee: (pasted above list)
K. Dasa: point made..