It would be nice if people treated with respect what they can get easily, cheap, or free, but there's a type of person who doesn't. Social manners being rare today, many people never realize they are being rude. So I've read complaints from those who tried hosting free classes and seeing who'd show up consistently without there being provisos like "either show up or call and say you can't or don't come back to any more" or having an admission in advance like some teachers are doing now. They changed their policy. One I know of, they have a high cost they charge initially for a class longrunning enough to be inexpensive per class. The instructor found that without the charge (which can seem like a lot), people disrespect the teacher's time. And s/he doesn't want dilletantes but people signing up who are serious.
Some folks try to evade the concept of being serious by sudden claiming of chaos or discordian current.. when its convenient. Seriousness and "greyface" ness are hardly the same thing at all.. if they looked at someone working the creative process - they are serious, intent, often intent, and frequently *dedicated* but also very alive. Discordianism someone pointed out recently was inspired by Zen quite a bit. Us being frienda and having mutual friends, we both know those currents have serious people. I dislike when people have thrown their crap issues around and claimed it was part of their religion when if someone actually knew anything about it they'd know it wasn't.
I've found, more often than not, that the things that have some high cost attached to them are the things that I appreciate most. We had comprehensive exams in grad school which were not so much tests of what you learned in class, but rather tests of what you were able to learn on your own from a list of about 45 books. Before I took my comps, I spent the better part of a year immersing myself in the 45 books on the reading list, doing supplementary reading, completing my research projects in Latin and French, presenting position papers and grilling and being grilled by members of the study group to which I belonged--and, oh yeah, paying $850 a semester for the privilege of putting myself through this. There were 12 of us who took comps that year; I was one of the few to actually pass (and was the only person in about ten years to even attempt one of the questions) in a department that generally has a low pass-rate for MA comps. A number of those who took comps with me started studying a month ahead of time (reading outlines of the books that others had done). Most had their tuition paid for; I paid for mine out of what I was able to save up from my security guard job at the library. I had an actual stake in it and not passing was not an option for me. I still consider myself part of an elite group for having succeeded in such a difficult task and still maintain contact with those who went through the experience with me.
I agree the value of hard work, sacrifice and delayed gratification is lost on many. Some want teacher to affirm them rather than teach; others seem to loose sight of the value of things since they've had so much given to them. I don't begrudge a teacher who charges, even what can be considered an exorbitant amount, to push their students to the limit (that is, if what the teacher is teaching is real and legitimate, given that we live in a "For Dummies" culture where any idiot who can memorize a few salient points can call themselves an "expert).
I attended a lecture given by Allan Ginsburg before he died. Someone asked him what the Beats really were all about. Ginsburg explained that many of the Beats were trained in poetic formalism of poetry that was the mark of poetry in the early 20th Century. The Beats saw that this formalism distanced language from experience, through "a hundred visions and revisions before the taking of a toast and tea, " and sought a poetic style that was rooted in experience. A lot of self-professed beats imitated the style, but few rose to the level of a Ginsburg or Ferlinghetti. They were able to "rebel" against their training because they had actually surpassed it, having mastered it and found its limitations. So too, Bruce Lee was able to surpass the "Classical Mess" and create Jeet Kune Do because he had achieved mastery of Wing Chun. A lot of people want to by-pass the hard work and just surpass what they don't really know and haven't mastered.
Many of the more valuable things I've done been inexpensive, however, they really cost someone a lot.. and that needs appreciation. And they always involved me having to work hard.
Its like my yoga class - sure its inexpensive per class - for me - however he's has spent over 30 years *not* earning zillions of dollars having chosen teaching this as his life work - and he certainly could have made a lot more money in something else. Similar stories go with many of the other classes I've taken - they didn't come "free" - rather I lucked into them inexpensively because they were generously offered. Those hosting hordes of hungry occultists of any stripe aren't doing it for "free".. it cost *them* time, energy, and money - even if the space is free. Some wiccans have restrictions in their tradition (coming down from Gardner) about directly charging - but they may hope for help or donations. A local coffee circle just asks for everybody to bring food to share, and yes, they will talk to those who regularly show up without. Its a trade-off - if people come and learn and apply themselves to what is willing to be shared, everybody benefits. All the good classes I've taken, the people going there know they got to do more than just show up and its not about how much they spent, there's no point in even driving over if they aren't going to work. Most people value their time.. what's funny are those who both want to waste their time and that of others is a common occurance in the occult (and public schools, but that's a separate situation often caused by mistakes in organization and focus).
That's an annoyance.. If I need to sit down and regain my energy during Yoga class until I can work again, that's something, if I'm engaged in learning, that's even better. But if I come there, sit down and just "chill" and expect everyone to "coax" out of me what's the matter, or need to have people remind me I'm supposed to be working on something, or have the notice of everyone, etc., and take the shoulder of several people *every* week, I hurt everybody. Those who put up with that for too long get tired and burned out, or need to be injected with backbone or a desire to see other people succeed.
I think its likely what I've had to work hard on that was right for me was what I valued most. Actual price in dollars - no. I'd tell you somewhere else what has probably cost me the most financially, and you'd know what I mean, then.
Some folks try to evade the concept of being serious by sudden claiming of chaos or discordian current.. when its convenient. Seriousness and "greyface" ness are hardly the same thing at all.. if they looked at someone working the creative process - they are serious, intent, often intent, and frequently *dedicated* but also very alive. Discordianism someone pointed out recently was inspired by Zen quite a bit. Us being frienda and having mutual friends, we both know those currents have serious people. I dislike when people have thrown their crap issues around and claimed it was part of their religion when if someone actually knew anything about it they'd know it wasn't.
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I agree the value of hard work, sacrifice and delayed gratification is lost on many. Some want teacher to affirm them rather than teach; others seem to loose sight of the value of things since they've had so much given to them. I don't begrudge a teacher who charges, even what can be considered an exorbitant amount, to push their students to the limit (that is, if what the teacher is teaching is real and legitimate, given that we live in a "For Dummies" culture where any idiot who can memorize a few salient points can call themselves an "expert).
I attended a lecture given by Allan Ginsburg before he died. Someone asked him what the Beats really were all about. Ginsburg explained that many of the Beats were trained in poetic formalism of poetry that was the mark of poetry in the early 20th Century. The Beats saw that this formalism distanced language from experience, through "a hundred visions and revisions before the taking of a toast and tea, " and sought a poetic style that was rooted in experience. A lot of self-professed beats imitated the style, but few rose to the level of a Ginsburg or Ferlinghetti. They were able to "rebel" against their training because they had actually surpassed it, having mastered it and found its limitations. So too, Bruce Lee was able to surpass the "Classical Mess" and create Jeet Kune Do because he had achieved mastery of Wing Chun. A lot of people want to by-pass the hard work and just surpass what they don't really know and haven't mastered.
Reply
Its like my yoga class - sure its inexpensive per class - for me - however he's has spent over 30 years *not* earning zillions of dollars having chosen teaching this as his life work - and he certainly could have made a lot more money in something else. Similar stories go with many of the other classes I've taken - they didn't come "free" - rather I lucked into them inexpensively because they were generously offered. Those hosting hordes of hungry occultists of any stripe aren't doing it for "free".. it cost *them* time, energy, and money - even if the space is free. Some wiccans have restrictions in their tradition (coming down from Gardner) about directly charging - but they may hope for help or donations. A local coffee circle just asks for everybody to bring food to share, and yes, they will talk to those who regularly show up without. Its a trade-off - if people come and learn and apply themselves to what is willing to be shared, everybody benefits. All the good classes I've taken, the people going there know they got to do more than just show up and its not about how much they spent, there's no point in even driving over if they aren't going to work. Most people value their time.. what's funny are those who both want to waste their time and that of others is a common occurance in the occult (and public schools, but that's a separate situation often caused by mistakes in organization and focus).
That's an annoyance.. If I need to sit down and regain my energy during Yoga class until I can work again, that's something, if I'm engaged in learning, that's even better. But if I come there, sit down and just "chill" and expect everyone to "coax" out of me what's the matter, or need to have people remind me I'm supposed to be working on something, or have the notice of everyone, etc., and take the shoulder of several people *every* week, I hurt everybody. Those who put up with that for too long get tired and burned out, or need to be injected with backbone or a desire to see other people succeed.
I think its likely what I've had to work hard on that was right for me was what I valued most. Actual price in dollars - no. I'd tell you somewhere else what has probably cost me the most financially, and you'd know what I mean, then.
Reply
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