Re: A Horrible ThoughttanousNovember 12 2012, 13:24:21 UTC
Yeah Im still lost as to what it was that was off.The arm clasp was as I said I think for Merlin/Arthur fans - a compensation for Overcompensation but no - it made no sense and we had no idea what Arthur thought about Merlins promise. The but where he fell down the hill was pretty pointless but I thought they showed quick anxiety followed by blankness. Bradley was trying to show silent urgency I think. I found it fascinating that it WAS silent - I honestly expect endless emoting about his inability to survive with out Gwen but maybe they've learned something. Or it was Julian Jones who as I said seem to have some grip on the characters. Well - better than the others anyway.
Im really interested that you think the M/A is more solid. In what way? Ive been a bit perpelxed by the lack of joy between them - its all so grim, though Merlin is certainly there for Arthur all the time. I await cheering up. (Sits back and taps fingers :P)
The AG -well I will say its not what I expected - its actually very funny in its platonic formality But it is also insidiously damaged of course in it creation of Little Arthur but at least they didnt show him as TOTALLY dependent on his mum. Even so his sudden inability to function as a commander was another blow his desperately tattered Great King image did NOT need
Still it is a huge relief not to be bludgeoned with bluebirds and rainbows so far- but of course there IS still time.:P
Re: A Horrible Thoughttanoshi_ameNovember 12 2012, 17:14:37 UTC
I have a feeling this is a bit like last week's episode when we just had to agree to disagree, so I'm afraid what I say isn't very convincing though. :P
I've been thinking about what we've gained and lost with the M/A dynamic this year. The humour, lessened for sure, though not a total absence. I get the reasons why it has been toned down so it doesn't bother me much. Anyway. 5.01 and 2 got it down, 5.03 has the horseplay which was intended for the same purpose I think, if one overlooks the innuendo. I really like 5.05 'I haven't seen you smile' scene because here we have Arthur trying to cheer Merlin up with humour. Last time it happened, I think it was the Freya episode? I like how Arthur's face in that scene was very gentle, very easy and honestly curious, it's like he's saying 'What happened? Three days ago you obviously still enjoyed my company and even laughed at my jokes. What changed?' Everything about it suggests that their easy banter is still very much there for Arthur to try to goad it out of Merlin. While 5.04 and 6 failed in that regard, I think at least there was effort in keeping the relationship up strong by focusing on other aspects of it. Granted, 5.06 has a quite weird result but, alas, they did try.
So, what do we gain? Quite a few things, in my opinion. In term of continuity, this without a doubt trumps S2/S3 where M/A dynamic was very random. It ties with S4 in this regard (counting only the first 6 eps). Though for me, the continuity of S4 - the consistent joy between MA - came with not yet acknowledging the the weight of lies and secrets on Merlin's shoulders. In a way, S5 portrayal of this new wearied Merlin is more honest and fitting, I think. Now with S5 the continuity is that equality between them. They're solving things together instead of Merlin secretly gets the job done himself. There's almost a certainty that Arthur needs Merlin now, depends a lot on what Merlin has to say. This, the 'Arthur cheers Merlin up' I just mentioned and the fireside chat are only some instances that suggest we're seeing active efforts from Arthur to understand Merlin as well, and that balances their relationship. I feel that because Arthur is now very truthful with Merlin, Merlin can't quite bring himself to lie as easily as before, instead he now chooses his words very carefully, and that sometimes comes off as detached formality. Despite that, the fireside chat where Merlin talked beautifully about his senses, I think it's the most honest Merlin has ever been with Arthur. That's the real Merlin right there. I like this 'so much trust/so little humour' tone because its ominousness works better leading to a reveal fallout. Almost foretelling. And they really need to bring down this relationship that's built on lies and rebuilt it on truths. Once again, pretend that I have no idea this is the last season.
Re: A Horrible ThoughttanousNovember 13 2012, 03:50:53 UTC
Oh believe me I want to be convinced! And what you say is actually great food for thought. Maybe Im still comparing to the brilliant relationship we saw in early S4 and thats just unrealistic of me. I do agree that there have been some lovely MA moments this year but... its the cheerlessness- the intensity since 5.03 thats unnerved me. You've cheered me up though!
Now just tell me that you don't believe they'll make Merlin old forever at the end - and why you believe that- and I'll love you forever. :P
I realised just the other day that Ive been howling at each ep as its come for its shortcomings compared with how it could and should have been - but looking back now 5.01 , 5.02 and 5.03 seem like genius compared with what's followed.
Is it just going to get progressively worse until we reach 5.13 and look wistfully back on 5.06 as comparatively brilliant? We may yet view this week as the peak! :P
Re: A Horrible Thoughttanoshi_ameNovember 14 2012, 07:20:17 UTC
Mmmn for me it doesn't necessarily translate into a downward trend... yet. More like, non-A/M central episodes likes 5.04 and 6 are automatically problematic. 5.05 I like just as much as 5.03, and a little more than the first two. So, I think as long as those synopses for the next few eps only covers the superficial level and A/M still remains at the core, we might get some more good ones.
As for Old!Merlin at the end, could you remind me again what source you think alluded to that outcome? Anyway, no, I don't really think they would go for it. If there is a series 6, that move makes no sense because the whole point of the show that is watching Merlin learn and grow into a wise man would be gone. And regardless of what status the trilogy movie or S6 is now, I think they must have beforehand planned S5's ending in some open-ended or cliffhanger-y way that is open to possibilities, meaning, flexibility for the Merlin character. Besides, taking Colin's words that the reveal when it happens will be in an intriguing way, so I should think for it to (hopefully) happen, there shouldn't be a permanent Old!Merlin plot which effectively eliminates the need for reveal at all? Inversely, if the reveal somehow happens before it, then it eliminates the need for Old!Merlin.
On the other hand if they indeed get neither S6 nor the trilogy and have to rewrite the finale, I'd think it's easier and safer to just cram a half-hearted reveal into it S4-wedding-style than go out of their way to weave an unnecessary 'Merlin gets trapped in Dragoon disguise and tells Arthur' just to purposely anger the fans (any past act of angering I think was due to their lack of talent rather than any intention of punishing us.) That said, apart from 'punish the fans' which I don't think TPTB is that childish to do, there's little reason to do it except for the sake of A Twist, in which quite a few other things are more likely to happen. I also think following the legend is the last thing they care about at this point, or else they would have Gwen choose the nunnery over guilt of whatever crime she "enchantedly" commits and fulfill that part of the legend at least (and save us the agony).
Im really interested that you think the M/A is more solid. In what way? Ive been a bit perpelxed by the lack of joy between them - its all so grim, though Merlin is certainly there for Arthur all the time. I await cheering up. (Sits back and taps fingers :P)
The AG -well I will say its not what I expected - its actually very funny in its platonic formality But it is also insidiously damaged of course in it creation of Little Arthur but at least they didnt show him as TOTALLY dependent on his mum. Even so his sudden inability to function as a commander was another blow his desperately tattered Great King image did NOT need
Still it is a huge relief not to be bludgeoned with bluebirds and rainbows so far- but of course there IS still time.:P
Reply
I've been thinking about what we've gained and lost with the M/A dynamic this year. The humour, lessened for sure, though not a total absence. I get the reasons why it has been toned down so it doesn't bother me much. Anyway. 5.01 and 2 got it down, 5.03 has the horseplay which was intended for the same purpose I think, if one overlooks the innuendo. I really like 5.05 'I haven't seen you smile' scene because here we have Arthur trying to cheer Merlin up with humour. Last time it happened, I think it was the Freya episode? I like how Arthur's face in that scene was very gentle, very easy and honestly curious, it's like he's saying 'What happened? Three days ago you obviously still enjoyed my company and even laughed at my jokes. What changed?' Everything about it suggests that their easy banter is still very much there for Arthur to try to goad it out of Merlin. While 5.04 and 6 failed in that regard, I think at least there was effort in keeping the relationship up strong by focusing on other aspects of it. Granted, 5.06 has a quite weird result but, alas, they did try.
So, what do we gain? Quite a few things, in my opinion. In term of continuity, this without a doubt trumps S2/S3 where M/A dynamic was very random. It ties with S4 in this regard (counting only the first 6 eps). Though for me, the continuity of S4 - the consistent joy between MA - came with not yet acknowledging the the weight of lies and secrets on Merlin's shoulders. In a way, S5 portrayal of this new wearied Merlin is more honest and fitting, I think. Now with S5 the continuity is that equality between them. They're solving things together instead of Merlin secretly gets the job done himself. There's almost a certainty that Arthur needs Merlin now, depends a lot on what Merlin has to say. This, the 'Arthur cheers Merlin up' I just mentioned and the fireside chat are only some instances that suggest we're seeing active efforts from Arthur to understand Merlin as well, and that balances their relationship. I feel that because Arthur is now very truthful with Merlin, Merlin can't quite bring himself to lie as easily as before, instead he now chooses his words very carefully, and that sometimes comes off as detached formality. Despite that, the fireside chat where Merlin talked beautifully about his senses, I think it's the most honest Merlin has ever been with Arthur. That's the real Merlin right there. I like this 'so much trust/so little humour' tone because its ominousness works better leading to a reveal fallout. Almost foretelling. And they really need to bring down this relationship that's built on lies and rebuilt it on truths. Once again, pretend that I have no idea this is the last season.
Reply
Now just tell me that you don't believe they'll make Merlin old forever at the end - and why you believe that- and I'll love you forever. :P
I realised just the other day that Ive been howling at each ep as its come for its shortcomings compared with how it could and should have been - but looking back now 5.01 , 5.02 and 5.03 seem like genius compared with what's followed.
Is it just going to get progressively worse until we reach 5.13 and look wistfully back on 5.06 as comparatively brilliant? We may yet view this week as the peak! :P
Reply
As for Old!Merlin at the end, could you remind me again what source you think alluded to that outcome? Anyway, no, I don't really think they would go for it. If there is a series 6, that move makes no sense because the whole point of the show that is watching Merlin learn and grow into a wise man would be gone. And regardless of what status the trilogy movie or S6 is now, I think they must have beforehand planned S5's ending in some open-ended or cliffhanger-y way that is open to possibilities, meaning, flexibility for the Merlin character. Besides, taking Colin's words that the reveal when it happens will be in an intriguing way, so I should think for it to (hopefully) happen, there shouldn't be a permanent Old!Merlin plot which effectively eliminates the need for reveal at all? Inversely, if the reveal somehow happens before it, then it eliminates the need for Old!Merlin.
On the other hand if they indeed get neither S6 nor the trilogy and have to rewrite the finale, I'd think it's easier and safer to just cram a half-hearted reveal into it S4-wedding-style than go out of their way to weave an unnecessary 'Merlin gets trapped in Dragoon disguise and tells Arthur' just to purposely anger the fans (any past act of angering I think was due to their lack of talent rather than any intention of punishing us.) That said, apart from 'punish the fans' which I don't think TPTB is that childish to do, there's little reason to do it except for the sake of A Twist, in which quite a few other things are more likely to happen. I also think following the legend is the last thing they care about at this point, or else they would have Gwen choose the nunnery over guilt of whatever crime she "enchantedly" commits and fulfill that part of the legend at least (and save us the agony).
Reply
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