Hi there and please do! I love hearing peoples opinions of the episodes and whats happening and where its going - so please say all you want!
We've been discussing the weird AM detachment further upthread- various theories. I personally dont think Mordred entered into it; he's been forgotten this episode just as Merlins disastrous decisions last week have been forgotten for now. Ive said before that Ive noticed Colin rarely smiles in this series even when delivering funny lines and Bradley seems to be playing it as unsmiling too since 5,02. I wonder of its meant to suggest its not a kids show anymore- its very grown up and serious? The relationship was in fine nick in 5.01-3 and not bad in 5.04 - except for that odd po-facedness. last week was terrible but last weeks writer cant write them IMO; this week the writer also write 5.01 so - I really dont think its a longterm choice. But its a bad idea whatever it is. Merlin/Arthur really is the heart of the show as the TPB have had to acknowledge - if they try to alter that they're toast. This episode was very M/A lite and look at how it turned out. If it had been Merlin or Arthur in the tower would it have been more interesting? Is Gwen just inherently dull? Or was it the concept and how they delivered it?
I agree entirely with what you say about the bizarre pacing - the fact that they are actually blatantly padding the final season when the magic reveal is standing there - enormous pink bull elephant in the corner of the room. The way they've resisted it is almost perverse - almost as if they want to punish the fans for making a fuss. Im so worried they give us an ending with Merlin 'revealed' but not- old Merlin. And what a 'that'll teach you to be careful what you ask for' ending that would be.
I think there's good reason to believe that the only reveal we get will be exactly what you describe...either Merlin will be trapped in his Dragoon persona, thus fulfilling both the expectation of legend and sticking it to the idiots like us who have kept watching for five years...or it will happen so close to Camlann that they'll successfully avoid any consequence and fall out.
I was reading someone else's posted reaction to 5.05 and 5.06 a bit ago, and was a bit shocked by the outpouring of general dismay that sprouted up in the comments. Not that I disagree--just that I hadn't seen widespread negativity before today. And how many fans suddenly hate Merlin (the character). :( I can't go there, mainly because I've adored the character for so long that even though their points stand--that he has basically turned his back on his fellow magic-users, that the decision to let Mordred die makes him a bad person (though I'd have argued he was in an untenable position when faced with Arthur's death), that he's a dumb ass who never uses his magic unless someone tells him to (this one alas has become more and more true by the episode), etc. In any case, the bottom line for most people was that it can't be fixed. And they're right. These writers have managed to do what most of us feared before the season...screw up both Arthur and Merlin, avoided the reveal to the point that every viewer and reviewer is frustrated, and skipped right over every part of the story that had the potential to be interesting. All of it. It's actually boggling how badly they've screwed this all up.
The consensus seems to be "just get to the finale so we know how bad it really is, and how disappointed we all must be for the rest of ever over it". I'd like to think that Alice's block coming up will give us some emotional depth for Merlin and Arthur at least...but I won't lie. I really don't even know if I want to watch the next five episodes. It's pretty obvious that the next three are filler. No way do we get even a secondary reveal. After that it's Mordred/Morgana reunion time so that's 10 & 11...and while there will no doubt be some drama leading to Mordred's inevitable turn, at this rate it will just be something Merlin screwed up again.
Gah, I just keep imagining how disappointing all of this must have been for the cast. There's been no real enthusiasm from anyone in the tiny bit that's been discussed about how the story ends. Alex is adorable and enthusiastic about his part, and the way things are going maybe Mordred really will be the hero of the piece. But I thought Colin, for always being the good little soldier in interviews, was telling for his lack of enthusiasm (and "if there's life left in these characters" line) in that interview with Alex a couple of weeks ago.
I should not be counting down the episodes and thinking only # more weeks until this is over. I feel like curling up with 4.01-4.07 on infinite loop. I will just never never never understand how it all went to hell so wildly after that.
Nor I. Its a huge, sad mystery and I guess we will never know.:(
Re Old Merlin - one of the things thats keeping me going (beyond the suspicion that even Shine wouldnt be stupid enough to put out such a feelbad ending at Christmas primetime in a family show - is that they were talking about an animation series to carry on when the show left off. I dont think old Merlin would fit that?
I havent seen any of the cast even mentioning the end? There seems to be an absolute blackout on everything - the end of S5 and the official future of the show. If we're reading into what Colin said 'If theres life left in the characters' would suggest death rather than old age? Or maybe old Merlin has always been their game but if so, why make Merlin so appealing and loveable and desperate to be known for who he is - not for who he'll be in 60 years time? Even the 5.05 backlash hasn't really turned his fans against him I dont think - I think its just misplaced rage at what the show has been doing - and if they do that to him...? Isnt there going to be a massive massive backlash against the show by its core fans? Even the ones who never ever criticise because 'its my happy place' aren't going to be feeling too happy after that
The thing that worries me most is the way Colin called reveal 'if it happens' , 'intriguing'. Is making Merlin ancient and Arthur never knowing who he was, 'intriguing'?
So in the end I wonder of the writers would care about a backlash? Would they want one? What would it gain them? Or if they've writing for the Net reviewers- the fanboys who know nothing about the core characters and care even less- who'd think it was a fab twist and move on? But then how many fans would buy the DVD box set of that I wonder? If they did that - they really would be blowing up the show as they leave and I just cant believe even THEY are that stupid and self destructive? Discuss :P
PS I noticed you mentioning Alice Troughton as a point of hope. Does she make much difference d'you think? Who directed 4.01-4.07?
You're right that not much has been said directly by the cast, which is weird in its own way. If they all knew it was definitely over, I almost think we'd have seen a bit more candor from the cast, at Cold Con if nothing else. I am legit creeped out sometimes by how controlling the J's are of what is discussed. It's such a weird juxtaposition from how most show runners choose to interact with fandom in this day and age. But I digress...
I love Colin dearly. But I don't put any stock into his "intriguing" statement. He's just too much in their pocket for this kind of thing. But the "life in them" thing to me, and Alex's reaction to it, were far more telling. I really have thought all year we're heading for Merlin trapped in the Crystal Cave based on what we know of the 'Gwaine's girlfriend' arc. I haven't yet fit together Dragoon and Morgana's vision at Camlann from 4.01...but if they're going to go for Arthur's death, I see no reason they'll shy away from Merlin trapped for eternity or even his own death since they've yet to deal with his immortality. Maybe the stupid "start over from the beginning telling the story from a different perspective" crap the J's were spouting (in regards to the movies) is a hint that Merlin freaks and resets time (laaaaaaame).
I legitimately do not think they care a whit about backlash. I don't think they care a whit about fan opinion at all. I think they did have an endgame in mind way back in S1, and simply failed to adjust as their own story, character relationships, actor chemistry, and fan reaction evolved. This is the worst kind of hubris...but as their ratings have improved over time, it's hardly worked against them from their perspective.
Speaking of ratings, before I became wholly disillusioned with the season, and still had moments of hoping S5 might not be the last, I thought there was legitimately no real reason for BBC not to actively pursue an S6. I still don't really understand what the lynch pin is...
Pros for renewal: Ratings and world-wide syndication rights. I'm sure I don't appreciate all the nuances of British television, nor the relationships between Shine et al, but I do understand popular shows make more money than unknown quantities.
Neutral for renewal: They haven't come close to telling the interesting parts of the story. We've vaulted over the golden age of Camelot and a united Albion, have never seen Merlin as an all powerful magician, nor as someone whose "wisdom will be remembered through the ages". Magic has not been restored to Camelot. It's a giant f'ing destiny fail all around at this point. Note that I have this as a neutral because while we see these flaws, I'm not sure TPTB do. And most critics aren't even talking about any of these issues.
Cons for renewal: I have to believe that primary cast are ready to move on. If I were Colin & Bradley's agent, I would be pushing both of them towards other projects. Obviously Ade, Tom and Eoin already have. Rumor from "people who know people" is that the cast is really not interested in an S6. I can't imagine what would lure them back besides a lot of $$, which probably weakens the financial appeal for the BBC and thus the only Pro on my list. :)
What am I missing?
None of which solves the "why not just say yay or nay" on S6 mystery, at all. Dissembling only aggravates die-hard fans, and wastes the ratings bump that almost all promoted series finales benefit from. So.damn.weird.
ETA: I see Bradley tweeted a pic of an ATV (? some piece of equipment parked on what definitely looks like a back lot). All this time in L.A. you HAVE to expect word on some new project any minute now. Just tell us you bastards! Put us all out of our lingering misery! :)
It really is - that last para is the big WTF about it all. Every show trumpets its last season to get more buzz. They've actively thrown a PR blackout over it.
Re fan reaction - a part of me thinks they have listened a bit, though nowhere near as much as fans wished. But the cons of a huge unhappy ending finale are that as I said the audience reaction. Do Shine want the Beebs audience log to be either empty, or filled with parents pissed off their kids were upset at Christmas and fans raving? For all their posturing, Merlin was built on a feelgood factor - always they've kept that going because thats what brings in the ratings. To suddenly turn comedy fantasy adventure into all-out tragedy - change the show entirely in its last season while still hauling along an audience looking for the old feel of it? - well thats pretty stupid commercially. They still have to sell those DVDs- still have to show the BBC they can deliver a show through multiple seasons and not kick the audience in the teeth at the end.
An example - Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes - far more mature and less feelgood than Merlin but still humorous- managed a fab poignant feelgood ending... the show sells bigtime on DVD and the audience flood the BBC with compliments. Same with Sherlock - it keeps the feelgood going alongside the poignant. Even Harry Potter with whom they liken themselves in the audience 'growing up' had a feelgood end. You only throw huge tragedy at audiences in the market for it and braced for it... thats the general rule of successful production. As for meeting legend - they couldnt even cope with the Lancelot triangle as a future offscreen feel-bad - why would they suddenly decide on showing us wholesale tragedy?
That said someone pointed out Shine did a Robin Hood show where they killed the main character. I imagine that show didn't last in the Cult annals somehow. And I bet the DVD sales were shite. :P Blakes 7 killed the whole cast and the reaction was entirely negative. But these producers are fathomlessly stupid - that is the point against
I'm lost too as to why the Beeb wouldnt renew TBH- theyre selling the show abroad very lucratively - it can match the XFactor in the ratings and they havent had a huge Saturday night hit since this and Dr Who. WHY wouldnt they renew? Yet the actors progressing careers are suggesting its not happening. Very very odd.
Point well taken on the fact it would be monumentally stupid to drop an angst bomb and miserable ending on the shows audience *on Christmas Eve no less*. It's the source of the tiny bit of optimism I occasionally indulge that they'll do a last minute reversal and spare at least one of them, if not both, from a tragic fate. The only other thing I can see is an "oh so clever" reset (the Merlin resets time theory) of some sort. Otherwise they don't just kill the chances of an S6, but of an animated series, the TV movies, lose a portion of the DVD sales...in other words--what you said! :)
I could be spouting utter rubbish - Im trying to convince myself the PTB at Shine will think in a rational way and not let their vanity take over their sense. But looking at net reviews and audience figures, Im pretty sure they think they can do anything and the fans will love it and adore them. I look around and for all I see fans are generally gutted with the season, it never seems to reach outside our bubble. In the public domain it seems as if S5 and Shine are worshipped.
Meant to say to your ETA - isn't that a train station in the twit pic? Theres a train in the background anyway.
I so bloody agree though - when are they going to tell us? I would imagine not soon, given by the control freak clamp down they've imposed on info on it - Im willing to bet that if C and/or B do have new projects they wont be allowed to say till after Shine have finished playing their weird games
Yeah - one would assume Bradley isn't randomly trotting around LA with a posse of celebs he has not much reason to know...if theres no work connection at all? Though I suppose stranger things have happened
LOL, yes on the station...I tried to edit my comment after I posted it, but apparently LJ doesn't let you edit something someone has replied to? You'd think after 10 years I'd know these things.
Anyway, I think the chances of an S6 after today's spoiler making the rounds are slim. I just don't think that TPTB are creative enough, nor do I think BBC is brave enough to take the show in a bold new direction. Still doesn't explain or justify the weird games...but I for one am now at peace with the fact it's over. I'm always going to be disappointed about so many things, and my merthur heart will always rue the fact that we didn't get a reveal or an epic side-by-side as equals kicking a$$ b/romance. But whatever. Just let the cast get on with their lives. I'll spend the next seven weeks they don't screw up those last two minutes and hope I'm not disappointed even by that.
Alice directed 4.01-4.03 as well as as 4.12-4.13 last year. She may not have overcome bad writing in the finale, but I never doubt the sincerity of the M/A core of the show in her eps. She also directed Crystal Cave and Eye of the Phoenix...so maybe it's just that's she directed several of my faves and have hope there's another fave out there waiting to be seen. I do think directors have a lot of influence on my enjoyment since the writing certainly doesn't cut it anymore.
Ah ok - well lets hope she brings some joy with her. :) Ive been told the guy who directed the first 2 eps will also do the finale - and thats not so bad. Looking back on whats come afterwards, 4.01 and 4.02 were character rich feasts and Merlin/Arthur were practically married. Its amazing what steady deterioration will do to your perspective! :P
PS Ive just been reminded Alice T also directed The Wicked Day so thats another point in her favour!
We've been discussing the weird AM detachment further upthread- various theories. I personally dont think Mordred entered into it; he's been forgotten this episode just as Merlins disastrous decisions last week have been forgotten for now. Ive said before that Ive noticed Colin rarely smiles in this series even when delivering funny lines and Bradley seems to be playing it as unsmiling too since 5,02. I wonder of its meant to suggest its not a kids show anymore- its very grown up and serious? The relationship was in fine nick in 5.01-3 and not bad in 5.04 - except for that odd po-facedness. last week was terrible but last weeks writer cant write them IMO; this week the writer also write 5.01 so - I really dont think its a longterm choice. But its a bad idea whatever it is. Merlin/Arthur really is the heart of the show as the TPB have had to acknowledge - if they try to alter that they're toast. This episode was very M/A lite and look at how it turned out. If it had been Merlin or Arthur in the tower would it have been more interesting? Is Gwen just inherently dull? Or was it the concept and how they delivered it?
I agree entirely with what you say about the bizarre pacing - the fact that they are actually blatantly padding the final season when the magic reveal is standing there - enormous pink bull elephant in the corner of the room. The way they've resisted it is almost perverse - almost as if they want to punish the fans for making a fuss. Im so worried they give us an ending with Merlin 'revealed' but not- old Merlin. And what a 'that'll teach you to be careful what you ask for' ending that would be.
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I was reading someone else's posted reaction to 5.05 and 5.06 a bit ago, and was a bit shocked by the outpouring of general dismay that sprouted up in the comments. Not that I disagree--just that I hadn't seen widespread negativity before today. And how many fans suddenly hate Merlin (the character). :( I can't go there, mainly because I've adored the character for so long that even though their points stand--that he has basically turned his back on his fellow magic-users, that the decision to let Mordred die makes him a bad person (though I'd have argued he was in an untenable position when faced with Arthur's death), that he's a dumb ass who never uses his magic unless someone tells him to (this one alas has become more and more true by the episode), etc. In any case, the bottom line for most people was that it can't be fixed. And they're right. These writers have managed to do what most of us feared before the season...screw up both Arthur and Merlin, avoided the reveal to the point that every viewer and reviewer is frustrated, and skipped right over every part of the story that had the potential to be interesting. All of it. It's actually boggling how badly they've screwed this all up.
The consensus seems to be "just get to the finale so we know how bad it really is, and how disappointed we all must be for the rest of ever over it". I'd like to think that Alice's block coming up will give us some emotional depth for Merlin and Arthur at least...but I won't lie. I really don't even know if I want to watch the next five episodes. It's pretty obvious that the next three are filler. No way do we get even a secondary reveal. After that it's Mordred/Morgana reunion time so that's 10 & 11...and while there will no doubt be some drama leading to Mordred's inevitable turn, at this rate it will just be something Merlin screwed up again.
Gah, I just keep imagining how disappointing all of this must have been for the cast. There's been no real enthusiasm from anyone in the tiny bit that's been discussed about how the story ends. Alex is adorable and enthusiastic about his part, and the way things are going maybe Mordred really will be the hero of the piece. But I thought Colin, for always being the good little soldier in interviews, was telling for his lack of enthusiasm (and "if there's life left in these characters" line) in that interview with Alex a couple of weeks ago.
I should not be counting down the episodes and thinking only # more weeks until this is over. I feel like curling up with 4.01-4.07 on infinite loop. I will just never never never understand how it all went to hell so wildly after that.
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Re Old Merlin - one of the things thats keeping me going (beyond the suspicion that even Shine wouldnt be stupid enough to put out such a feelbad ending at Christmas primetime in a family show - is that they were talking about an animation series to carry on when the show left off. I dont think old Merlin would fit that?
I havent seen any of the cast even mentioning the end? There seems to be an absolute blackout on everything - the end of S5 and the official future of the show. If we're reading into what Colin said 'If theres life left in the characters' would suggest death rather than old age? Or maybe old Merlin has always been their game but if so, why make Merlin so appealing and loveable and desperate to be known for who he is - not for who he'll be in 60 years time? Even the 5.05 backlash hasn't really turned his fans against him I dont think - I think its just misplaced rage at what the show has been doing - and if they do that to him...? Isnt there going to be a massive massive backlash against the show by its core fans? Even the ones who never ever criticise because 'its my happy place' aren't going to be feeling too happy after that
The thing that worries me most is the way Colin called reveal 'if it happens' , 'intriguing'. Is making Merlin ancient and Arthur never knowing who he was, 'intriguing'?
So in the end I wonder of the writers would care about a backlash? Would they want one? What would it gain them? Or if they've writing for the Net reviewers- the fanboys who know nothing about the core characters and care even less- who'd think it was a fab twist and move on? But then how many fans would buy the DVD box set of that I wonder? If they did that - they really would be blowing up the show as they leave and I just cant believe even THEY are that stupid and self destructive? Discuss :P
PS I noticed you mentioning Alice Troughton as a point of hope. Does she make much difference d'you think? Who directed 4.01-4.07?
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I love Colin dearly. But I don't put any stock into his "intriguing" statement. He's just too much in their pocket for this kind of thing. But the "life in them" thing to me, and Alex's reaction to it, were far more telling. I really have thought all year we're heading for Merlin trapped in the Crystal Cave based on what we know of the 'Gwaine's girlfriend' arc. I haven't yet fit together Dragoon and Morgana's vision at Camlann from 4.01...but if they're going to go for Arthur's death, I see no reason they'll shy away from Merlin trapped for eternity or even his own death since they've yet to deal with his immortality. Maybe the stupid "start over from the beginning telling the story from a different perspective" crap the J's were spouting (in regards to the movies) is a hint that Merlin freaks and resets time (laaaaaaame).
I legitimately do not think they care a whit about backlash. I don't think they care a whit about fan opinion at all. I think they did have an endgame in mind way back in S1, and simply failed to adjust as their own story, character relationships, actor chemistry, and fan reaction evolved. This is the worst kind of hubris...but as their ratings have improved over time, it's hardly worked against them from their perspective.
Speaking of ratings, before I became wholly disillusioned with the season, and still had moments of hoping S5 might not be the last, I thought there was legitimately no real reason for BBC not to actively pursue an S6. I still don't really understand what the lynch pin is...
Pros for renewal:
Ratings and world-wide syndication rights. I'm sure I don't appreciate all the nuances of British television, nor the relationships between Shine et al, but I do understand popular shows make more money than unknown quantities.
Neutral for renewal:
They haven't come close to telling the interesting parts of the story. We've vaulted over the golden age of Camelot and a united Albion, have never seen Merlin as an all powerful magician, nor as someone whose "wisdom will be remembered through the ages". Magic has not been restored to Camelot. It's a giant f'ing destiny fail all around at this point. Note that I have this as a neutral because while we see these flaws, I'm not sure TPTB do. And most critics aren't even talking about any of these issues.
Cons for renewal:
I have to believe that primary cast are ready to move on. If I were Colin & Bradley's agent, I would be pushing both of them towards other projects. Obviously Ade, Tom and Eoin already have. Rumor from "people who know people" is that the cast is really not interested in an S6. I can't imagine what would lure them back besides a lot of $$, which probably weakens the financial appeal for the BBC and thus the only Pro on my list. :)
What am I missing?
None of which solves the "why not just say yay or nay" on S6 mystery, at all. Dissembling only aggravates die-hard fans, and wastes the ratings bump that almost all promoted series finales benefit from. So.damn.weird.
ETA: I see Bradley tweeted a pic of an ATV (? some piece of equipment parked on what definitely looks like a back lot). All this time in L.A. you HAVE to expect word on some new project any minute now. Just tell us you bastards! Put us all out of our lingering misery! :)
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Re fan reaction - a part of me thinks they have listened a bit, though nowhere near as much as fans wished. But the cons of a huge unhappy ending finale are that as I said the audience reaction. Do Shine want the Beebs audience log to be either empty, or filled with parents pissed off their kids were upset at Christmas and fans raving? For all their posturing, Merlin was built on a feelgood factor - always they've kept that going because thats what brings in the ratings. To suddenly turn comedy fantasy adventure into all-out tragedy - change the show entirely in its last season while still hauling along an audience looking for the old feel of it? - well thats pretty stupid commercially. They still have to sell those DVDs- still have to show the BBC they can deliver a show through multiple seasons and not kick the audience in the teeth at the end.
An example - Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes - far more mature and less feelgood than Merlin but still humorous- managed a fab poignant feelgood ending... the show sells bigtime on DVD and the audience flood the BBC with compliments. Same with Sherlock - it keeps the feelgood going alongside the poignant. Even Harry Potter with whom they liken themselves in the audience 'growing up' had a feelgood end. You only throw huge tragedy at audiences in the market for it and braced for it... thats the general rule of successful production. As for meeting legend - they couldnt even cope with the Lancelot triangle as a future offscreen feel-bad - why would they suddenly decide on showing us wholesale tragedy?
That said someone pointed out Shine did a Robin Hood show where they killed the main character. I imagine that show didn't last in the Cult annals somehow. And I bet the DVD sales were shite. :P Blakes 7 killed the whole cast and the reaction was entirely negative. But these producers are fathomlessly stupid - that is the point against
I'm lost too as to why the Beeb wouldnt renew TBH- theyre selling the show abroad very lucratively - it can match the XFactor in the ratings and they havent had a huge Saturday night hit since this and Dr Who. WHY wouldnt they renew? Yet the actors progressing careers are suggesting its not happening. Very very odd.
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I so bloody agree though - when are they going to tell us? I would imagine not soon, given by the control freak clamp down they've imposed on info on it - Im willing to bet that if C and/or B do have new projects they wont be allowed to say till after Shine have finished playing their weird games
Yeah - one would assume Bradley isn't randomly trotting around LA with a posse of celebs he has not much reason to know...if theres no work connection at all? Though I suppose stranger things have happened
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Anyway, I think the chances of an S6 after today's spoiler making the rounds are slim. I just don't think that TPTB are creative enough, nor do I think BBC is brave enough to take the show in a bold new direction. Still doesn't explain or justify the weird games...but I for one am now at peace with the fact it's over. I'm always going to be disappointed about so many things, and my merthur heart will always rue the fact that we didn't get a reveal or an epic side-by-side as equals kicking a$$ b/romance. But whatever. Just let the cast get on with their lives. I'll spend the next seven weeks they don't screw up those last two minutes and hope I'm not disappointed even by that.
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PS Ive just been reminded Alice T also directed The Wicked Day so thats another point in her favour!
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