Fic challenge

[tanarian]

Title: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Characters: Jack, Ianto, Gwen, Martha, Mickey
Rating: Mild PG for kiss
Spoilers: Strong for Journey's End
Warning: Not really a good choice for Martha and Mickey fans
Disclaimer: Not mine; they belong to RTD and to the BBC
Summary: Written for Day Six challenge on horizonssing.

How happy is the blameless vestal'

Comments

[msp_hacker]

*shakes head* While I feel sorry for Ianto, I think he could have handled things a little better. Namely, saying something about how he felt he was being excluded and belittled!

[tanarian]

Having gone through depression myself, I found it very difficult to have to constantly speak up and ask people to notice me. (To be honest, I think they're more likely to kill the character off, but I couldn't quite do that to Ianto!)

[msp_hacker]

I don't think they're going to kill Ianto off. At the very least, not so soon after killing Owen and Toshiko. I especially don't worry about the writers not knowing what to do with Ianto because they don't really know what they're doing with any of the characters besides Jack! Especially in the case of Ianto, since the only part where he did things that no one else could have done was really Cyberwoman - with a few brief moments in Countrycide - I'm hoping with the addition of the already strongly developed Martha and Mickey that they'll focus on developing Ianto more and giving Gwen more consistent characterization.

If anything else, there's always the hope that Rusty, the other higher-ups, and to a small degree John Barrowman, wants to avoid the "a homosexual relationship always ends in death" sci-fi trope.

[tanarian]

I'd worry less if it wasn't for the fact that RTD seems to consider a nice tragic ending to be the very height of TV writing. First season of Torchwood ended in them losing Jack, second season had them losing Owen and Toshiko. First season of New Who had them losing Jack and the Doctor regenerating, second season had him losing Rose, third season had the Master being killed and the Doctor losing Martha and fourth season had Donna as good as dead. It's not an encouraging track record, you know!

While the characters of Martha and Mickey are strong in Who, they will be unknown to the Torchwood fanbase who don't watch both shows (and they exist). And the fact that Martha and Mickey are strong characters will mean that they are used more. A scriptwriter who's pushed for time is going to use a readily developed character rather than go to all the trouble of fleshing out another one - especially if they're having to write a new villain as well

[msp_hacker]

Some of the tragic endings weren't Rusty's fault at all. Chris Eceleston only would do one series, necistating his writting out. ( He also threw out that they couldn't establish David Tennet as a strong male lead if Jack was already there, and Jack would have handeled the situation more pragmatically. ) Billie Piper wanted to do something else, so she was written out. Cathrine Tate only wanted to do one season, so she too was written out. John Simm only wanted to do a small run, since his primary reason was that his son wanted him to do it.

So the only one's where it was all Rusty was Martha and Jack - and since they both get repeatedly fucked over again and again it's not much of a change. I blame "Exit Wounds" on Chris Chimball, and since he's gone off to do a Law and Order series I don't worry about him anymore.

And Rusty wants positive homosexual relationships too! And if Rusty and John want it, it will probably happen.

[tanarian]

God, I hope you're right! But I'm surprised that you say that Rusty wants positive homosexual relationships because if that's the case why the bloody hell doesn't he give us one instead of all this endless faffing around? (Although I have always suspected that the upper echelons would prefer that such icky nastiness was left out of the equation, so that could be the problem. It's one of the big worries I have about them moving across to BBC1. BBC3 was a niche channel, BBC2 is the arty channel, so gay stuff could be tolerated, but BBC1 is the mainstream channel and that could be trouble.)

[msp_hacker]

The endless waffling was some sort of "are they or aren't they?" thing. I just really hate how writer's do relationships on shows, because if they had spelled out the Jack/Ianto, then they would have to throw in dynamite to shake things up like Gwen/Rhys, or just never have it come to pass like Toshiko/Owen.

I also feel optamistic about BBC1. The first season had Mary/Toshiko, and only very tiny hints that Jack/Ianto was going on until the snog in the last five minutes of End of Days. So we have the Evil Dead Lesbian cliche and pretty graphic hetrosexual stuff and barely mentioned gay things at all. The second season had Jack and Ianto actually talking about their relationship, and several kissing scenes.

I don't think there will be a lot of Jack/Ianto next season, just because the way the episodes are planned, but I don't think they'll break them up. Even if Ianto turns out to be an alien, Jack won't really care - just confused on how he missed it.

[love_jackianto]

'Even if Ianto turns out to be an alien, Jack won't really care - just confused on how he missed it.'
At the very least if would give Ianto some kind of backstory. I mean really is that *too* much to ask.

[tanarian]

Yes, but now we're going to be on BBC1. Mainstream, where all the anti-gay nutters live.

And when did Jack and Ianto talk about their relationship? We had a vague offer of a date (which was never followed through on, damn it!), and the very nebulous conversation in Last Man Standing, which could have applied to Gwen or the Team as much as Ianto. I know that I read a hell of a lot into that, but people I spoke to didn't see it as referring to Ianto. They saw it as a generic statement, which troubles me. Sometimes I worry that my filter is too strong and I see things because I want them to be there, but in actual fact there's nothing. I would probably have relaxed if we had had a scene at the end of Exit Wounds that mirrored the one between Gwen and Rhys. That would have been confirmation, but we didn't get it.

[love_jackianto]

'That would have been confirmation, but we didn't get it.'
That's what worries me, they could easily replace Ianto with another love-interest and the causal viewers probably wouldn't care. We really haven't gotten anything.

[holdingoff]

I would probably have relaxed if we had had a scene at the end of Exit Wounds that mirrored the one between Gwen and Rhys. That would have been confirmation, but we didn't get it.

Exactly. 10 seconds of screen time with Jack & Ianto just sitting next to each other on the sofa; or looking at each other over Jack's desk would have meant *something* if it followed the lead in of Gwen getting all weepy with Rhys. But oh no, we can't make it look like there's really anything there.

[love_jackianto]

'But oh no, we can't make it look like there's really anything there.'
If they keep it ambiguous for yet another series I may just give up and live in the wonderful world of fan fiction- not that I don't all ready.

[tanarian]

If they do the same thing next season (but probably substitute Martha for Gwen) I will go completely mental!

[love_jackianto]

Yeah, all those red cap, hockey stick jokes have gotten a little old. If they keep Jack/Ianto ambiguous for yet another series I may just give up on that relationship all together- why should I care about it if the writers don't. Which would be a shame.

[alba17]

People really saw the conversation in Last Man as a generic statement? Yes, I've got a very strong Janto filter, but given that they had that kiss after, how could it be generic? I agree on Exit Wounds, and now we can ditto that for Journey's End.

[tanarian]

Having sat down and counted (Lord, I'm sad at times), I know twenty-three people who watch Torchwood but who aren't really fans in the sense we would recognise. (They don't make an effort to watch it, they don't analyse the episodes, they wouldn't miss it if it wasn't on, that kind of thing). They indulge me because they know I'm mad for it and (in the case of my workmates) it's something to talk about other than work. All of them, apart from three who had previously listened to me ramble on about Janto, assumed that Jack was talking about everyone he had ever known and then Ianto had jumped him. (The three who had been paying attention just rolled their eyes and asked me if I was going to stop grinning any time soon?)

I just want one sodding scene to mirror the Gwen/Rhys scenes we get. Why is that so damned much to ask for???