why the bible (and thus those who believe in it) are immoral PT 1
Ok, to preface this story I have to tell you all that I'm an atheistic agnostic. (For clarification I don't believe in a god but I don't know if one exists or not)
now I'd like for there to be a god. That would make death less scary, and an invisible friend who helps me overcome any problem and give me anything I ask them for? That would be sweet. and in my personal view (being agnostic) it makes sense to study religions so as to figure out why I don’t believe them (or if their claims have any validity and thus I finally have me a sky-daddy)
So when a couple of Jehovah’s witnesses asked my opinions on religion and offered to teach me the bible I was open minded. They gave me a copy of their bible (the new world translation. I know you other christians think it heretical, but the bit I'm going to be reading follows pretty much the same between the JW bible and the king James so I don't see how it matters.) And they visit me once a week to give me their spin on things.
Now between their visits I took to reading the bible from beginning to end. I didn’t get far when I got to a story that was so horrifying that I couldn't really bother going forward.
The part in question is Genesis: 34 (yeah, right at the beginning. I didn’t even get to the Exodus) which is the story about Dinah.
If you want to read it yourself you can see it here but I'll give a synopsis for those of you who can't be bothered clicking the link.
In this story Dinah, the daughter of the Israelite tribe chief went out to hang out with her neighbours. While she was out Shechem (the son of the neighbours’ tribe chief) saw Dinah and (allegedly) raped her. He then took her to his home and had his dad negotiate a wedding with Dinah's dad Jacob.
Hamor (Shechems' dad) offers to pay any bride price. But Jacobs' sons said they would not allow their sister to marry anyone who is uncircumcised. (this is a ruse to make the princes people vulneable) They then extended the offer by saying that if all of Hamors' people get circumcised theyd freely allow marriage contracts between the two tribes. Shechem quickly agreed and convinced his fathers’ people to go along with it.
Heres where the story gets REALLY bad. Three days after all the townsmen in good faith mutilate their genitals, Jacobs' sons go in and slaughter all the men, take the women and children captive and then pillage all their belongings.
When their Dad complains about their actions (what will the neighbours think!?) the sons justify themselves by saying "ought anyone to treat our sister like a prostitute? As if that validities their actions.
Heres all the issues I have with this story
We don’t get her opinions on anything. We don’t see her pain at getting (allegedly) raped. We don’t see her reaction to her brothers killing her husband. (Did she cheer them on? Was she relieved that she would not have to suffer the company of her rapist anymore? Or, did she weep seeing her beloved husband put to the sword? We’ll never know.) This seems strange since this whole mess revolves around her. I personally see this as an example of women’s marginalisation in the bible.
I. Dinah was a virgin daughter in a society that subscribes to the ownership model. While she’s a child she belongs to her dad. Then arrangements are made, a wedding is had, and then she belongs to her husband. It’s quite possible that the violation is just that they didn’t have her dads consent to have sex.
II. Shechem was a Canaanite; making him both a heathen and the descendant of someone who also allegedly raped someone* and thus impure, which is how he could have defiled her.
I. Shechem did Rape Dinah. This is bad because even if the prince was guilty of such a reprehensible act. It didn’t justify the slaughter of all the males, the capture of the wives/kids and the looting. They deliberately manipulated the situation so that the men would be incapacitated. If they were really in such a bad shape that they couldn’t defend themselves, then the Israelites committed murder when they could have gotten their sister back and gotten their vengeance by stealth. Plainly put, they went overboard and profited from a tragedy.
II. Shechem didn’t rape Dinah. Same as above but all the victims were innocent this time, making so that the brothers are nothing but honourless marauders.
6. the brothers answer to the dad. if their actions were to be just they should have brought them up with their father first (after all, he was the one pimping out his daughter in this scenario) instead they bargained a better price for their sister by letting her "captors" keep her for a while longer and raiding their neigbours. their actions had nothing really to do with their sister and her honour abut had everything to do with their greed and bloodlust.
7. Gods reaction to all this? There isn’t one There’s examples in the Mosaic Law which show that the Israelites were in the wrong by his standards (I’ll get to why those standards suck at a later I date… Maybe) but does he use this as an opportunity for him to express his opinion on things? Does he use it as a teaching opportunity? Does he punish anyone?
HELL NO! then he comes up with the mosaic law, And says “these things are bad M’kay?” I’m sorry but the “Perfect God” of the bible comes off as a flip flopper ‘cause of that
I’ve brought these concerns to the aforementioned JWs. Their response wasn’t much better.**
But I’m going to leave that to another day ‘cause this is WAY to long and has taken up way to much of my time.
* Genesis 9:20-27, in where Noah gets drunk, his son Ham sees him naked and tells his brothers about it. And Noah curses Hams’ son for no apparent reason and curses his descendants to slavery. People apologise for it by saying Canaan must have raped his grandpa and Ham told everyone about it. But there’s nothing in the text itself to explain it.
** they gave me an explination for why the Dinbah story was a good story which was mostly rape apology, implied racisism and a strong devisive message (Forget loving your neighbor, if you go out and make friends with godles heathens it'll get you raped!)
why the hell isn't cuts working? sorry guys.
now I'd like for there to be a god. That would make death less scary, and an invisible friend who helps me overcome any problem and give me anything I ask them for? That would be sweet. and in my personal view (being agnostic) it makes sense to study religions so as to figure out why I don’t believe them (or if their claims have any validity and thus I finally have me a sky-daddy)
So when a couple of Jehovah’s witnesses asked my opinions on religion and offered to teach me the bible I was open minded. They gave me a copy of their bible (the new world translation. I know you other christians think it heretical, but the bit I'm going to be reading follows pretty much the same between the JW bible and the king James so I don't see how it matters.) And they visit me once a week to give me their spin on things.
Now between their visits I took to reading the bible from beginning to end. I didn’t get far when I got to a story that was so horrifying that I couldn't really bother going forward.
The part in question is Genesis: 34 (yeah, right at the beginning. I didn’t even get to the Exodus) which is the story about Dinah.
If you want to read it yourself you can see it here but I'll give a synopsis for those of you who can't be bothered clicking the link.
In this story Dinah, the daughter of the Israelite tribe chief went out to hang out with her neighbours. While she was out Shechem (the son of the neighbours’ tribe chief) saw Dinah and (allegedly) raped her. He then took her to his home and had his dad negotiate a wedding with Dinah's dad Jacob.
Hamor (Shechems' dad) offers to pay any bride price. But Jacobs' sons said they would not allow their sister to marry anyone who is uncircumcised. (this is a ruse to make the princes people vulneable) They then extended the offer by saying that if all of Hamors' people get circumcised theyd freely allow marriage contracts between the two tribes. Shechem quickly agreed and convinced his fathers’ people to go along with it.
Heres where the story gets REALLY bad. Three days after all the townsmen in good faith mutilate their genitals, Jacobs' sons go in and slaughter all the men, take the women and children captive and then pillage all their belongings.
When their Dad complains about their actions (what will the neighbours think!?) the sons justify themselves by saying "ought anyone to treat our sister like a prostitute? As if that validities their actions.
Heres all the issues I have with this story
- Dinah isn’t a character in this story, she’s a MacGuffin. Don’t believe me? Read the story and then read this Wikipedia article
We don’t get her opinions on anything. We don’t see her pain at getting (allegedly) raped. We don’t see her reaction to her brothers killing her husband. (Did she cheer them on? Was she relieved that she would not have to suffer the company of her rapist anymore? Or, did she weep seeing her beloved husband put to the sword? We’ll never know.) This seems strange since this whole mess revolves around her. I personally see this as an example of women’s marginalisation in the bible.
- Shechems’ crime is a little ambiguous. He could have raped her, but the wording in the king James says: He took her, and he lay with her, and he defiled her. The new world translation says: He took her and lay down with her and violated her. At least the second translation sounds more like a violent rape. But even then I have issues with it. For two reasons:
I. Dinah was a virgin daughter in a society that subscribes to the ownership model. While she’s a child she belongs to her dad. Then arrangements are made, a wedding is had, and then she belongs to her husband. It’s quite possible that the violation is just that they didn’t have her dads consent to have sex.
II. Shechem was a Canaanite; making him both a heathen and the descendant of someone who also allegedly raped someone* and thus impure, which is how he could have defiled her.
- If Shechem did rape Dinah then Jacobs’ allowance of the wedding was reprehensible. Like I said before. We don’t know Dinahs’ opinion on the matter, for all we know Jacob signed a contract saying that Shechem was allowed to continually abuse his daughter for any price he wanted.
- now we get to the slaughter; there are two ways to interpret this both are bad:
I. Shechem did Rape Dinah. This is bad because even if the prince was guilty of such a reprehensible act. It didn’t justify the slaughter of all the males, the capture of the wives/kids and the looting. They deliberately manipulated the situation so that the men would be incapacitated. If they were really in such a bad shape that they couldn’t defend themselves, then the Israelites committed murder when they could have gotten their sister back and gotten their vengeance by stealth. Plainly put, they went overboard and profited from a tragedy.
II. Shechem didn’t rape Dinah. Same as above but all the victims were innocent this time, making so that the brothers are nothing but honourless marauders.
- I’ve already mentioned this when I gave the synopsis, but the dads reaction SUCKS! He’s more hung up because no one will trust him now. Never mind the fact that his sons are lying, murdering, thieving, kidnappers, who deserved to be punished. This guy sucks as a father and as an adjudicator.
6. the brothers answer to the dad. if their actions were to be just they should have brought them up with their father first (after all, he was the one pimping out his daughter in this scenario) instead they bargained a better price for their sister by letting her "captors" keep her for a while longer and raiding their neigbours. their actions had nothing really to do with their sister and her honour abut had everything to do with their greed and bloodlust.
7. Gods reaction to all this? There isn’t one There’s examples in the Mosaic Law which show that the Israelites were in the wrong by his standards (I’ll get to why those standards suck at a later I date… Maybe) but does he use this as an opportunity for him to express his opinion on things? Does he use it as a teaching opportunity? Does he punish anyone?
HELL NO! then he comes up with the mosaic law, And says “these things are bad M’kay?” I’m sorry but the “Perfect God” of the bible comes off as a flip flopper ‘cause of that
I’ve brought these concerns to the aforementioned JWs. Their response wasn’t much better.**
But I’m going to leave that to another day ‘cause this is WAY to long and has taken up way to much of my time.
* Genesis 9:20-27, in where Noah gets drunk, his son Ham sees him naked and tells his brothers about it. And Noah curses Hams’ son for no apparent reason and curses his descendants to slavery. People apologise for it by saying Canaan must have raped his grandpa and Ham told everyone about it. But there’s nothing in the text itself to explain it.
** they gave me an explination for why the Dinbah story was a good story which was mostly rape apology, implied racisism and a strong devisive message (Forget loving your neighbor, if you go out and make friends with godles heathens it'll get you raped!)
why the hell isn't cuts working? sorry guys.