That old canard.

[meus_ovatio]

A random article became interesting because of the recent Wisconsin fight over public-sector compensation. UnitedHealth CEO makes 48.8 million.

This article sparks many interesting questions. They are:

Comments

[heavens_steed]

If you are so pissed about teacher's unions, why aren't you proudly explaining just how much more sick you are of paying for corporate failure?

As a conservative sympathetic with Tea Party principles, I am against corporate welfare. Anyone who supports smaller government and free market principles should be opposed to any unjustified government welfare, whether it be for corporations or for individuals. However, corporate welfare is not the primary source of government spending and deficits. Entitlement and pension programs are.

Also, TARP was not government welfare. It was a loan. Most of the TARP funds have been paid back to government with interest and because of that and the imminent threat of economic collapse that faced the U.S. at the time, I believe TARP was justified.

As for CEO salaries, I do find the discontinuity between increases in CEO pay and increases in worker pay to be troubling. But the question is: what do we do about it? How do you level the playing field more without hurting businesses? Punishing corporations with higher taxes doesn't work as they will move jobs to other locations where taxes are lower and they will pass the cost of those taxes on to the consumer. You could put a cap on CEO salaries but then that might discourage competition and the most qualified people from executive positions.

The general reason why conservatives and Tea Party members side with business and the private sector over government and the public sector is simple. Government operates by force. Taxes are not voluntary or optional. With businesses, there is a choice. If you don't like to buy from or work with a particular corporation, you can go to another one. You can change and choose who you do business with. With the government, you only have one option. The government is by definition a monopoly and the only way you can change the outcome is through electing politicians that will represent your concerns. The difference between public sector unions and executive compensation is that you have a choice when it comes to giving money to the CEO. You don't have a choice about giving money to public sector unions. If you don't pay the public employee unions with your tax dollars, you will go to jail.

There is no cognitive dissonance. I'm personally very poor. I know very well that I personally pay very little in income taxes because much of what I pay in I get back. I'm not the one who is getting robbed and screwed by big government programs or public sector unions directly. It's the wealthier and more productive citizens who are getting screwed and I defend them. Why? Firstly because it is unfair. Secondly, when the rich and the primary movers of the private sector are punished, it means the rest of us will suffer too. There will be less prosperity and less job opportunity. When the rich get poorer, the poor get poorer too. That is to say, directly hurting the rich will indirectly hurt people like me.

My solution is to lower or even eliminate corporate taxes while also abolishing corporate welfare and the tax loop holes that some corporations use to get out of paying taxes. I believe the same method should be used on individuals as well. Lower the tax rates on the wealthy while simplifying the tax code to either a flat tax or a fair tax. No more special deals or loopholes for the rich and no more high progressive tax rates that discourage and punish work and wealth creation. The rich will still pay more in taxes but it will be fairly proportioned. But Democrats and liberals don't want to do any of that. They just want to tax the hell out of the rich and spend into oblivion. Crush the private sector with an ever increasingly bloated public sector. The only problem is that when the public sector has nothing left to feed on, it's going to starve and die.

[meus_ovatio]

You mean the taxpayer money that was taken by force and funneled into executive bonus compensation was voluntary?

The only problem is that when the public sector has nothing left to feed on, it's going to starve and die.
Cool story bro, too bad it has nothing to do with reality. The public and private sectors both contribute and detract from economic performance. This simple narrative is an exercise in fairy-tale storytelling that has no basis in the reality of modern society.

[farchivist]

I am against corporate welfare.

Why do you hate business?

If you don't like to buy from or work with a particular corporation, you can go to another one

You probably also believe that a monopoly does not develop without government help or that if one does, it's because everyone is happy with the product. Like Microsoft Windows.

It's the wealthier and more productive citizens who are getting screwed and I defend them.

1) I'm not getting screwed, thank you.
2) I don't need (or want) your defense.

Secondly, when the rich and the primary movers of the private sector are punished, it means the rest of us will suffer too. There will be less prosperity and less job opportunity. When the rich get poorer, the poor get poorer too. That is to say, directly hurting the rich will indirectly hurt people like me.

Trust me, if I get punished you won't suffer at all. Trickle down is a lie. I'll still be spending the same amount whether I'm punished or not.

Lower the tax rates on the wealthy while simplifying the tax code to either a flat tax or a fair tax.

As long as you're OK trying to pay your way out of the deficit or supporting your current military on about 20-25% of the revenue the government takes in now, no problem. Oh, and then there would be the rise in black markets if you implemented a FairTax, but that's just the free market at work.

No more special deals or loopholes for the rich and no more high progressive tax rates that discourage and punish work and wealth creation. The rich will still pay more in taxes but it will be fairly proportioned.

No, we well-off people will find a way to continue using our tax havens and loopholes. It's why we employ accountants and attorneys.

But Democrats and liberals don't want to do any of that. They just want to tax the hell out of the rich and spend into oblivion.

You truly believe that?
*shakes head* Well, then you won't believe anything I've said, even though it comes from the horse's mouth. Oh well. *shrugs* The poor never do listen to the rich when we tell the truth.

[farchivist]

But actually, don't take my word for it.

[sealwhiskers]

I doubt many who should read this will, but it's a good read.

[farchivist]

No, I won't get a single response to this. I already know.

[lai_choi_san]

I'm so impressed to see that the way of martyrdom did not become entirely dead letter these days.
If I could, I would put your comment under a glass case with some saint-sulpician decoration.

[meus_ovatio]

Does anyone else find the rhetoric of personal responsibility so disgustingly twisted by those who would preach dependency?

[lai_choi_san]

I feel ashamed for I am a great sinner. ;)

[anfalicious]

My massa is so so good, he gives me food and water and only beats me when I'm bad. If we take away his right to own slaves I'll be out on the street with no one to take care of me.

You mention you're poor. Compare your situation to one comparable in any other developed nation. This is why people call cognitive dissonance. Being poor in the US is worse than being poor in any other developed nation, but it sure is the best place in the world to be rich; yet most of the poor in the US seem to be blaming government, not the robber barons who are enslaving them.

[sealwhiskers]

Don't forget the fear mongering by the right wing propaganda machine, that all those other countries are socialist, and that people are forced to only choose between one or two brands are dressed the same and hardly have any restaurants to go to, oh and all those awful lines to get to the doctor!

I know many lower income people in the US who have totally bought into these lies and think that their lot in life in the US is the best they can get.