Comments | talk_politics: bush and torture

mijopo in talk_politics

bush and torture

Nov 10, 2010 11:07

Apparently GWB's memoirs include an acknowledgement that he okayed torture and attempts to justify it by claiming that it saves lives, British lives in particular. It also appears that the British are taking some exception to that claim. Setting aside the intriguing question of whether he's acknowledging war crimes, this points to something ( Read more... )

human rights, gwb, torture

Comments 297

underlankers November 10 2010, 16:12:29 UTC

References to Jonathan Swift are always appreciated.

IMHO that torture is even a debate in the United States is disgusting. Whatever the failings of our grandfathers' day they knew damned good and well torture was evil. It's why they hung leaders of the Axis Powers for that very kind of thing. And two generations later we're now having debates over whether or not torture is in fact torture?

Progress my ass.

OTOH it's at least refreshing he didn't try to deny it altogether the way some people would have. Not that he'd ever pay any penalty for it, God forbid the USA should grow some stones about morality and consistent morality at that.

thies November 10 2010, 16:19:44 UTC

that whole book seems to be a sad attempt at whitewashing his decisions and shifting blame. historians might like it as added insight into his personality.

underlankers November 10 2010, 16:21:50 UTC

Welcome to the wonderful world of primary sources and memoirs. The first rule of thumb for historians is to take every statement in a memoir with a grain of salt the size of Siberia unless it can be independently verified, if sources permit. If they can't then it is taken for what it is until more sources are found. Historians have every reason to *distrust* memoirs and the only ones that take them at face value are the kind who I'd like to offer investments in my Sahara Cruise Line to.

telemann November 10 2010, 16:41:01 UTC

Yeah, I wished NBC (particularly Matt Lauer, who is a Bush family friend) would stop falling all over Bush with such glowing coverage on his book.

fizzyland November 10 2010, 16:53:19 UTC

Matt Lauer can suck it!

Thread 6

paft November 10 2010, 16:20:27 UTC

Interesting to note that in his interview with Matt Lauer, Bush refused to answer the question of whether or not it would be okay for a foreign power to waterboard American prisoners.

American exceptionalism in action.

mijopo November 10 2010, 16:22:44 UTC

Oh, I couldn't bring myself to watch that interview, now I'll have to hunt it down on youtube.

underlankers November 10 2010, 16:24:01 UTC

Nah, it's the typical double-standard big, rich countries apply to other ones. That's not American exceptionalism, that's simple hypocrisy. The American Exceptionalist response would have been that the USA can do whatever it wants however it wants because God sez so in the Book of Foxworthy in the Yankeestani Bible.

fizzyland November 10 2010, 16:26:12 UTC

But they weren't prisoners - they were "unlawful enemy combatants", whatever that means. So they weren't prisoners of war, except of course we were fighting the War on Terror but since these guys didn't have official uniforms of the Army of Terror so things like waterboarding, imprisonment without charges, etc. aren't actual abuses... or something.

Thread 15

il_mio_gufo November 10 2010, 16:54:54 UTC

Bush....

I always did say I'd rather impeach a person for alcoholism over committing adultery any day.

(The comment has been removed)

il_mio_gufo November 10 2010, 17:43:34 UTC

and yet non-disease models are proving to be more effective than classical disease-based treatment (?). Hmmmmm.....

Still, most places of employment would terminate, or suspend, employment if an individual was ever found to be under-the-influence while at work. I believe that is the case whether you work at a Medical Facility, Law Office, McDonalds, or a Jiffy Lube - no exceptions that I can think of.

rasilio November 10 2010, 18:15:14 UTC

Lol I used to work for a courier service in Boston where it was the norm.

Yes, that is correct, a courier service where all but 2 employees were on the road driving in congested city streets for 12+ hours a day and only 2 or 3 of the drivers were ever sober past 3 PM (as a non drinker I was one of the few sober ones) and EVERYONE knew when anyone else was drunk because of the constant radio chatter.

Thread 12

Observation on Bush and Torture sophia_sadek November 10 2010, 17:18:09 UTC

I wish I could recall exactly who said it, but an observer of the Bush Administration recounted the way that a wounded suspect was tortured by withholding pain medication. When Bush was first told of the arrest, which resulted in gun shot wounds, he asked about the interrogation of the suspect. When he was informed that the suspect was too groggy as the result of pain medication, Bush is quoted as asking who authorized the medication.