My Culture war...

[sandwichwarrior]

On january 29th 2002, I enlisted in the US Navy. Despite being solidly left-leaning children of the 60s my parents were supportive. "At least he didn't join the Marines." My mother was heard to say. "You should be a computer tech or an air traffic controller, that way you can stay in the US and make good money once your 4 years are up." was also

Comments

[box_in_the_box]

What if I were to argue that the war was really over Risk vs. Reward, Talk vs. Action, or Freedom vs. Safety?

The biggest problem being that the vast majority of people who advocate on behalf of risk are - unlike you (and thank you for your service, by the way) - not taking any risks at all. You put your money where your mouth was by enlisting and serving the types of duty that you did. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and the legions of other fat old white men who are all EMPIRE EMPIRE EMPIRE WAR WAR WAR are risking nothing by doing so, which is why I pray every night that they will contract ass-raping penis-cancer and die like pigs in Hell.

I did seven years in the fleet myself. Five on shore-duty overseas, the last two on board the TR, at the tip of the spear in Enduring and Iraqi Freedom. It was hard as hell, but compared to what you've no doubt gone through, it was a fucking cake-walk. As a direct result of my own service, I will never support any attempt to reinstitute a military draft. I just won't do it. And the reason is because, after having gone through the far lesser amount of risk than I did, I find it morally abhorrent to volunteer someone ELSE for such a risk in my stead.

[a_new_machine]

I wonder if Beck and Limbaugh are really on the Risk side of the equation. After all, Obama and the Dems are the ones pushing new social and economic policies, while the conservatives are holding on to the way things were.

That said, I think simplifying to Risk vs. Safety may be over-simplifying what's really going on. This isn't a Personality War, nor is any one set of values more or less prone to risk.

[geezer_also]

I'm only posting because this may be the only thing we ever agree on.
If we had a compulsory draft like Israel, I might accept it. Of course I hate the draft since I joined the Navy to avoid it, so I may have a bias :D
I still got "shore duty" in Cam Rahn Bay....the one place one could get the "benefits" of being in a war zone, without getting shot at (which is the main reason I rarely mention I was there)

[box_in_the_box]

Dude, you wore the uniform and that takes sacrifices enough. I do respect your wanting to clarify your status, though, because it's the same reason I always rush to tell people, "No, I wasn't a ground-pounder; my war was SAFE." :)

[fizzyland]

I was in the Army - military intelligence. My brother fought in Gulf War I, all I did was winter war games in Germany against Warsaw Pact forces.

[devil_ad_vocate]

Operation REFORGER?

[meus_ovatio]

Operation GUM THE TRACKS OF THE RUSKIE TANKS TILL REINFORCEMENTS ARRIVE... IN SIX MONTHS.

[devil_ad_vocate]

Yeah, that was what they told us in 1969. I was in the 24th ID for the first one. Fortunately, we only killed one Mercedes and a couple of VWs (Never... ever... try to pass an M88).

Damn, Grafenwoehr is one cold sumbitch in January!

[fizzyland]

Yes!

[devil_ad_vocate]

Hohenfels - what a garden spot. ;)

2/70th Armor, 24th Infantry Div... it took me a month to thaw my feet.

[fizzyland]

4th mechanized infantry out of Fort Carson, CO - I'd like to say that Fulda is lovely in winter but it was fricking freezing - the German "bus stop" type of outdoor toilets were delightful to use in those conditions.

military intelligence?

[geezer_also]

I always thought that was an oxy-moron :D

[light_over_me]

Rush Limbaugh flunked out of college to pursue a career in radio. He started off as a top 40 disc jockey for a small local station on a.m. radio. Whatever you might think of him, he didn't get to the level of celebrity that he is now without having taken a few risks in his lifetime.

As for Glen Beck, I wouldn't say he's had the easiest childhood, with his mother's drowning/suicide, and then later his stepbrother suicide and his own substance abuse. He also started off small on local radio, and apparently, exchanged the drugs in for Jesus.

Generally, even fat old white men were all once young and unimportant.

I nominate this for DQ

[sandwichwarrior]

...even fat old white men were all once young and unimportant.

[box_in_the_box]

Not all risks are equivalent, and suggesting that taking career risks entitles someone to speak with authority on how military members who fight and die for us should be handled is an almost Godwin-level of offensively inappropriate. That's like someone with red hair saying they know what it's like to be black because gingers get picked on too.

Also, "flunking out of college" is not a fucking risk - take it from someone who knows. CHOOSING to drop out to pursue a career, like Bill Gates? THAT'S a fucking risk.

[light_over_me]

Umm I never suggested (with authority or otherwise) that it was equivalent to risking your life in combat. So I fail to see how I said anything offensive or inappropriate. sandwichwarrior, were you offended? If you were, I apologize and I'll delete my comment.

We are discussing risk taking in general. Military service was the OP's example. But fact is, most people make choices in their lifetime and take various kinds of risks. Yes even "old, fat, white" men.

Also, "flunking out of college" is not a fucking risk

Trading a college degree in order to pursue a highly competitive career where relatively few make to the very top? Sure it is. No, he hasn't (to my knowledge) served in the military, but I don't see how that's relevant to my point.

People face adversity in life. In the face of adversity, people will respond by taking risks, or trying to limit them as much as possible.