Backwards Thinking

[ofbg]

A news article I saw yesterday really ticked me off. It's about Senator Carl Levin wanting to increase income taxes to pay for the war on terror. War is one of the few things that is truly legitimate to go on the national debt because it preserves the nation for all future generations and it's cost should be spread out.

Comments

[the_rukh]

This war doesn't do the things you're talking about.

[ofbg]

All wars do. If we didn't combat terror, what do you think would be the outcome?

[underlankers]

Terrorism is a weapon of the weak, not the strong. Effectively we'd have more pinpricks, but nothing really serious. Bin Laden's not even a hornet, he's an annoying mosquito that thinks he's a hornet. His little Islamic version of the Bolsheviks is not going to disrupt the Juggernaut that is Westernization.

[gillen]

"His little Islamic version of the Bolsheviks"

You really should talk to someone about your obsession. It leads you to say some terribly silly things.

[gillen]

"it preserves the nation for all future generations"

Only if it's a war for survival. Usually it simply serves to siphon the public treasury into private accounts.

[ofbg]

This is a war for survival, As I said above, "If we didn't combat terror, what do you think would be the outcome?"

[gillen]

You think we're combatting terror? How is our war against a strategy going then?

[ofbg]

It's keeping them busy and off balance so far. There have been no successful attacks since 9/11 on US soil.

[udoswald]

You don't think that healthcare, properly executed, would greatly benefit future generations? I bet it would do a better job of helping future generations than a bunch of mentally and physically disabled war veterans from a war started for the purpose of securing oil rights for US companies. Social Security and Medicare have done more to secure the health and well-being of senior citizens than anything else in the history of this country. They have greatly benefited generations that weren't even alive when those laws were passed.

[ofbg]

"You don't think that healthcare, properly executed, would greatly benefit future generations?"

Do you think they will be able to afford it after all the crap debt we left them?

[udoswald]

The Obama Administration didn't invent the national debt. Besides, nobody on the right seems to understand that much federal money is already going to healthcare. It's just being used to intervene at the very last moment in times of health crisis in an extremely inefficient and unhelpful way. The government currently pays hospitals money for "charity care". Most poor people don't go to a hospital until they're practically dead because of the expense. When they finally do, they often find themselves forced to throw themselves upon the mercy of the hospital. Because they waited too long, the ultimate cost is much higher than it would have been if they'd had a way to see a doctor before their condition advanced. This is where the public option, and healthcare reform, would help. You seem to forget that while the program will cost money it will also save the government money by eliminating the need for much more expensive and inefficient programs.

[chessdev]

this. yes. exactly.

[root_fu]

A good explanation detailing why we need war would be a start.

[ofbg]

Human civilization in all of history, has always been governed by the aggressive use of force. If we didn't do the same, others would govern us.

[root_fu]

Last I heard, this war was about WMD's. But, they didn't find any. Why does the war continue on, then?

[ofbg]

To stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan and keep the terrorists busy and off balance. It's worked so far. It will go on for decades or longer if we don't want 9/11 repeated or worse.

[drcruel]

I don't disagree with your premise, assuming that the war in question really is necessary to protect the health and well-being of our citizens. But I'd have to add that, no matter what one's position is on whether or not the $1,000,000,000 war in Iraq was indeed necessary to protect the health and well-being of our citizens, I think we can all agree that health care is absolutely necessary to protect the health and well-being of our citizens.

[ofbg]

"health care is absolutely necessary to protect the health and well-being of our citizens."

Yes, and it should be paid for by those it is helping, in the way they want to pay for it.

[gillen]

Universal healthcare helps everyone. Outside of the direct benefits, if you're not out sick, you're at work to do your job and I don't have to pick up your workload. If you're not ill, then you're not coughing on me and making *me* sick. If you don't die until a reasonable age, you don't inflict trauma on others around you, which (even if I'm a total bastard) I have to then deal with. As long as we have to share a society, keeping you in top health is in my personal interest.

[ofbg]

"keeping you in top health is in my personal interest"

That train left the station a while back. lol

I provided for my health care with by paying 2% of all I earned into a trust fund for 35 years(and another 4% for a pension). Zero government help. My highest earning year was a hair over 60k the 35th year of my career(2001).