We don't like'm, we just envy them

[luvdovz]

How do the Russian people see the role of Russia in Europe, and do they view themselves as Europeans? That was the question in a research funded by the Friedrich Naumann foundation of Germany. It gives some idea of the Russians' attitude to the EU, and their opinion about the role of their country on the continent. The results speak of quite a

Comments

[dz]

I'll add some more. For (I hope) clarity.

Russians 2000: "What USA and Europe think of us? Are we good enough in their eyes? Let me go to Germany on vacations bring some gifts to my family. I want that 5-years old BMW."

Russians 2015: (Does not give a shit what USA and Europe think of us. At all.) "Those shops in Munich are a bit of a bore and selection of goods is so-so. I'll by gifts in Moscow. I'll buy that new Nissan made in SPb with 40% localization of parts production."

On sanctions: THANKS GODS! PLEASE DON'T STOP! PUHLLLIIIZZZZ! At least for two years. It takes time to re-establish local production.

In short: we do not depend on the rest of the world anymore. "Bye and thanks for all the fish."

It doesn't mean that we're hostile or something. We just live our life, not anyone's.

Please listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIvRljAaNgg&feature=iv&src_vid=CL_GShyGv3o&annotation_id=annotation_2612647377

Ones in Russia who spent some minutes to listen to that audio think that Ukrainian government overturn is made by both EU and USA competing each other to kill the Ukraine first.

And yes, we do think that both of you (USA and EU) went completely crazy.

[htpcl]

I assure you the sentiment is mutual.

[dz]

C'mon. Russia did not and does not:

- start wars all around the globe. List of wars USA took part in - 41 just in this sentury. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations - Russia took part in 3 (three) and all of them were started not by us.

- make crazy things with world's economics.

- attempt to rule the world.

Actually, it's all the same. West (mostly USA) had 25 years to rule the world alone. With its (financial or traditional) weapons. It is obviuos that result is disastrous.

What Russia says is: enough.

Time to find out how to agree, not pretend that one country is so powerful that it can rule around.

That's, really, why all the war affairs of Russia. Goal is simple: to show, that this is not an instrument anymore. We can't (and do not want) to win, but we can block.

Time to agree.

Is it really crazy.

[abomvubuso]

Being a resource-based economy, I very much doubt Russia does not depend on the rest of the world anymore. Case in point: the nose-dive that the rouble has taken since OPEC decided to pump up cheap oil into the global economy, and suppress fuel prices.

[dz]

As we use to say, there is dependency and dependency.

Comparing to the USSR Russia is much more dependent in terms of import. We buy a lot.

But.

1. We do not depend the way we did 10 years ago. Those times we would starve with no import, literally. Not so now.

2. We do not depend emptionally - and it is the most relevant thing. Russians threw away apathy and desperation. "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the english way", not russian. We feel drive. We do see our future.

3. Russia is very realistic. Yes, we're just 2% of global market. But, anyway, a lot of western companines will tear their asses into a British flag to have a part of a Russian market. They need our market more than we need them here. Just for example - if western sofware giants will get away, believe me, russian software makers will fill some poll with champain and swim two days drunk and happy.

4. Growth of hitech production and export in Russia is limited not with our engineering or production abilities but with market share problem. It is really hard to enter existing market. You can't offer good price if you have no big market share and you can't take big part of market having higher prices. Having this in mind we can see that any attempt to isolate Russia gives us chance to retaliate and bring one more customs barrier to protect internal market from cheap import which leads to production growth. Slowly, thow. But it does.

As an example: Russia produces (as far as I remember) 6 or 7 kinds of CPUs. I mean different architectures, 2 designed internally, others licensed or created from scratch but compatible. We can't win price war with Intel as long as border is open for Intel's production. But give us 5 years with +50% for Intel CPU price and there will be a chance.

That is what I really mean talking about dependency.

[abomvubuso]

Sure, Russia is not as one-sided an economy as the USSR used to be. That awfully smells of false dichotomy, though. Being a tad more diverse than before does not mean you've arrived at a stage of development that you could've had, if your society was more open politically. Because incentive for development and innovation tends to increase as the levels of liberty increase. A "strong-hand" authoritarian rule could garner some short- to mid-term results, granted, but if history is any guide, it's unsustainable in the longer run.

Russians threw away apathy and desperation

Then why are suicide and drinking rates at their highest in Russia? Why are Russians getting the hell out of Russia?

I've been working with Russian businesspeople and have been visiting Russia regularly for years now, and I do feel the economic development. As well as the social lagging behind the rest of the developed world. That discrepancy, which anyone who claims to be realistic would've noticed a long time ago, is bound to cause some tensions sooner or later, I'm afraid. The same way the falling of the information blockade prior to the 90s caused Russians to realise how far behind the West they were at the time, which ultimately led to the swift collapse of the entire communist system.

[dz]

1. Russia is not a "strong-hand" authoritarian country. Sorry. It's a myth. You're free to speak what you want, it is relatively easy to become a deputy of a State Duma (lower house), and if you do something meaningful you cat reach tight contact with government easily.

2. "Being a tad more diverse than before does not mean you've arrived at a stage of development that you could've had, if your society was more open politically."

It is a myth too. You can compare Ukraine and Belarus.

Ukraine: 45 mln people, huge territory, got crazy part of USSR factories: planes, engines, cars, spaceships (!!) production, everything. In 25 years of being "more open politically" went to economical disaster, fachism, nearly no meaningful exports, and nobody's ready to invest into this territory of crazyness.

Belarus: 8 (eight!) mln, "strong-hand". Visit it. It's paradise. GDB per capita 6583 compared to 2109 of Ukraine. Factories do work, international investments come in, business is growing.

Sorry.

[abomvubuso]

Russia is not a "strong-hand" authoritarian country. Sorry. It's a myth.
LOL. Ooo-kaaay...

[dz]

I am really sorry to say that, but comment "LOL. Ooo-kaaay" makes me think that it's autor is either a 10-years child or mentally challenged man with IQ of 20. Good luck in either case.

[htpcl]

And you've just earned yourself a 3-day suspension.



Go read the rules of this community, and stop pretending that your behavior is anything but that of a 10-year old.

[dz]

Yes, and about rouble dive.
It was a decision.

Once again, the global question was simple. If west (sorry for generalisation here) is ready to let Russia be one of the equals, we're ready for the integration. It means, as a part of a global contract, more or less stable rouble excnahge rate to protect foreighn investments.

But then we got some messages that mean one simple thing: no, Russia, you're not equal, you're being robbered. We (west) will buy assets on your territory and export revenue, and you CAN'T buy real assets in the western countries and have reverse (into the Russia) cash flow.

First message was very clear. Russia (sberbank) attempted to buy (bunkrupt, I believe?) Opel. At the moment when deal was almost settled (sberbank was officially choosen as a buyer), USA cried "stop it, Russia newe will be an owner of even such a piece of western shit".

Ok.

Then it was an attempt to literally robber Russia in Cyprus, when WESTERN banks lost a lot of money on WESTERN financial games and attempted to take RUSSIAN money to fill the gap.

Finally it became obvious that no fair game can be played with what we call west.

It means that we do not give a shit now about USA/Europe and set rouble exchange rate to serve our, just our interests.

[abomvubuso]

Let's face it. The decision was to initially try to counter the plunge through central-bank moves, but then Putin realised the state funds would soon get depleted, so he backpedaled on that decision and opted for letting the rouble float freely. We're seeing the consequences as we speak.

The rouble dipped because the one resource that Russia can rely upon, oil, has suddenly become excessively abundant on the global market, and because Russian energy resources are not as cheap as the Gulf ones, Russia can no longer rely on people buying its expensive oil. Thus, the enormous losses. That's what happens when you have a one-trick-pony type of economy. If it were an economy as diverse as you'd like to imagine, it would've easily compensated for the oil problem, and it wouldn't be even felt as severely as it is now. But that's not what happened, is it.

[dz]

It is not so simple.

Import/export balance of Russia is still _positive_. I mean, measured in dollars.

And losses are not enormous. Big, yes.

But there's a big difference between economics and imports.

Here's an example. Nissan (which is supposed to be IMPORT) prices are 10% higher this year in Russia. Exchange rate is +100%, and Nissan prices are +10%, of which 5% is USUAL per-year inflation and just other 5% are result of rate change.

Quite the same with others. Prices for 'import' grow, but not even close to (expected) +100%.

Reason is simple - Russia made a lot to convince (or push) foreighn vendors to localize production. Most of them have local factories, not just final - as we call it - screwdriver assembly, but components production too.

It would be lie to say that everything is fine. But Obama's belief that russian economics is ruined is quite far from being true.

[abomvubuso]

Define the difference between big and enormous.

You're omitting the issue of Siberia being gradually bought off by China, and Russia essentially being turned into a resource extension to the Chinese economy.

Obama's belief that russian economics is ruined

Got a citation for such a claim? I've never heard that from him.

[dz]

"Well, today, it is America that stands strong and united with our allies, while Russia is isolated with its economy in tatters."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/01/20/remarks-president-state-union-address-january-20-2015

Now's your turn to prove that "Siberia being gradually bought off by China". :)

[abomvubuso]

Given the level of confirmation bias that you've displayed thus far, something tells me that no matter what "proof" I provide, it won't matter to you at all. So let's leave it at that.