Of empathy, and good intentions gone sour

[airiefairie]

I'm sure the Game of Thrones fans have already watched the latest episode of the hit show on HBO. The show has gone into quite some controversy lately, what with all the gore displayed on screen, and the violence against women, and a number of other controversial issues. But last weekend's installment of the epic story provided yet another piece of

Comments

[policraticus]

I've only read the books and don't have HBO, so this post makes me sad, since Shireen hasn't died, yet, in the books. Certainly not as a sacrifice to the Red God. Since this is G R R Martin we'er discussing, I'm not saying that it would be impossible, but for those of you who haven't read the books, this is a major departure from the story arc as written, so far.

It seems to me that passion is the enemy here, not empathy.. Empathy is intimately wedded to reason. Rightly understood, they are not opposites or in conflict. Part of the application of reason is giving consideration and weight to the effects of a policy. If you only use statistics then you aren't looking at every part of the equation and you open yourself up to error.

What is on display with Stannis is not cold-blooded ruthlessness or an application of reason divorced from empathy. Instead, it is fanaticism without regard to evidence or reason or empathy. It is pure passion. Obsession. Meglomania. Madness. Maybe it isn't as clear in the TV series as the books, but Mellisandre is not acting on Stannis's behalf, indeed it isn't clear to me that she is even working on behalf of the Red God. She has lied to him much more than she has told him the truth. She has her own agenda that isn't entirely clear. What is perfectly clear, however is that her main claim, that Stannis is Azor Ahai, is self evidently wrong, either a mistake or a deliberate deception. And, in the books at least, Jon Snow and Samwell Tarley know this.

[telemann]

I'm not saying that it would be impossible, but for those of you who haven't read the books, this is a major departure from the story arc as written, so far.

I never read the books myself, but the producers are changing things as the series is progressing, which is certainly keeping the book readers on their toes now. For example,. the series had a rape scene between Ramsey Bolton and his newlywed bride, Sansa Stark is different in the books. It was a pretty rough scene (in fact the actor who plays Ramsey Bolton, ‎Iwan Rheon, has said in interviews, the role really challenges his comfort zone, and he has a hard time with it.

[policraticus]

From what I understand, there are a lot of conflations, telescoping narratives, additions and omissions in the series. Which is fair enough. Adaptations are their own stories, and should be. You could hardly have a coherent plot line, given the cluster fuck exercise in gratuitous unedited masturbation that are the last two novels in the series, without leaving much more out than Martin put in. And now they are heading beyond the books, so I guess everything becomes fair game.

Frankly, an eventual novelization of the series might end up being a better novel than the source material.

[telemann]

Frankly, an eventual novelization of the series might end up being a better novel than the source material.

But I really like the big scope of Game of Thrones, its sort of like Der Ring des Nibelungen for me.

[policraticus]

I really enjoyed the books, everything in there is cool and engaging. But, by Book 3 the plot lines began to multiply and it became clear to me that by Book 4 any attempt to focus Martin by his editors had either failed or been abandoned. Parts of it seemed like Martin had looked at a map of the world and said to himself, "hey, I'd like to take a holiday in this part of the world I haven't described yet, let's plop in another couple characters and plot lines in order to make that happen!" As if, at the beginning of The Return of the King, Tolkein had just sent Gimli and Legolas wandering off to the Iron Mountains and Rhûn to collect some unknown Dwarven Princess for obscure reasons. Now, to draw all the threads together, even over another two books, seems very unlikely. And that is if Martin just focuses on current plot lines. And that assumes he hasn't been distracted or even frozen by the series.

I'm sure the series is avoiding this, because it costs a lot more to film something than it does to type something. Part of the reason ASOIAF gets me irritated now is because it is so good, but it is also completely off the rails.

[htpcl]

You do realize that just because someone is dead on the show, it doesn't necessarily mean they're dead in the books, tight? The show has been departing from the books in ever bigger ways as it progresses. The writers have had the habit off killing off secondary characters that shouldn't be dead, and merging several characters into one in order to have more coherent plot-lines, etc. Shireen might just be well and good in the head of GRRM as he's struggling to lay his increasingly convoluted plans on paper.

[policraticus]

Like I said my other comment, adaptations are their own thing and that is fair enough. Because the text is running out, the series is going to have to chart its own course, barring some Joseph Smith like revelation of books 6 and 7 written on golden tablets.

[mikeyxw]

"You do realize that just because someone is dead on the show, it doesn't necessarily mean they're dead in the books, right?"

Just because someone is dead in the books doesn't necessarily mean they're dead in the books.

[htpcl]

THIS COMMENT IS DARK AND FULL OF SPOILERS!!!

[sandwichwarrior]

I disagree with your final paragraph.

Cold-blooded ruthlessness and application of reason are exactly what we are seeing. Magick actually works in Westeros, Stannis has seen it work. He Sacrificed his daughter to save his army, and the kingdom.

[abomvubuso]

People are prone to ascribing extraordinary explanations to otherwise inexplicable natural phenomena or random occurrences, so that may be where this belief in black magick emerges from - whereas it may all be about coincidence. Or better yet, a sufficiently advanced knowledge, which, as we all know, is indestinguishable from magic :)

[telemann]

Or better yet, a sufficiently advanced knowledge, which, as we all know, is indestinguishable from magic :



BUT WHO WILL THINK OF THE CHILD BURNERS!?!?