So why did the Agora lead to proto-fascism in Sparta and absolute hereditary monarchy in Macedon? What Ancient Athens and its empire proved was that democracy, against a sufficiently clever and resilient autocracy, will lose every time it tries to fight because the democracies make self-destructive decisions and have everyone to blame for it, while autocracies can be far more ruthless and unfettered and thereby more effective in the grand game of power. Plus, there's the equally grim irony from the perspective of modern times that Spartan autocracy had more to recommend itself in one area than did Athenian democracy: Sparta was much more egalitarian than Athens where Spartiates were concerned and Spartan women had more rights than any women would after the collapse of Sparta in the Battle of Leuctra ever again. The only price paid was the reduction of an entire group far more numerous than the Spartiates themselves into a permanent slave caste, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Well, you said 'Greece' had the agora and the agora as a geographical place serves as a good representation of the Greek ideal of direct diplomacy. In reality democracy in Athens was a murkier and a more convoluted concept in origin and it crashed and burned fairly swiftly in the Peloponnesian War and had little relevance to the postwar Greek Empires on the Spartan or Macedonian models
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I would answer your direct question by noting that I think the premise that ancient Greece was democratic first and foremost is a bit of an overstatement and thus a good deal of the original premise is invalid.
I said the agora is the foundation for the development of direct democracy, not that "ancient Greece was democratic". Words have specific meanings, and I try to use them carefully. I also am not impressed by the employment of strawman arguments, which seems to have become a norm in most political forums.
And that's my point: the un-democratic Greek societies also had agorae as it was a part of the institution of the Polis working as intended. Obviously it did not have any direct connection to Athenian Democracy when Sparta and Macedon also had them and it did not lead either in any kind of democratic direction. If there is this direct connection between the Agora and the democracy of Athens, then no form of Greek autocracy could have co-existed with the Agora because it would have been directly influential on the society in question. As the Agora clearly co-existed nicely with slavery and autocratic hereditary monarchy, your premise is invalid and thus the entire post has problems for that reason
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Modern dictatorships also have parliaments - doesn't mean the presence of a parliament leads to a dictatorship. And yet, the presence of a parliament is a prerequisite for democracy. That is my point.
It is a strawman, because I never said "Greece was democratic".
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It is a strawman, because I never said "Greece was democratic".
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