Comments | talk_politics: What's the West missing in the whole Middle East picture?

mahnmut in talk_politics

What's the West missing in the whole Middle East picture?

Jun 26, 2014 21:22

The advance of Saudi-funded ISIS in Iraq is increasing the sense of an impending chaos in the Middle East. Yep, you heard me. Saudi Arabia is triggering the destabilization in Iraq behind USA's back, and ironically, Iran is offering its help to stop that. Curious, huh? Meanwhile in Libya, the government has become hostage to uncontrollable ( Read more... )

extremism, middle east, civil war

Comments 127

abomvubuso June 27 2014, 07:37:37 UTC

The role of the Kurds is quite interesting in this situation. So far they've kept neutral in the Sunni-Shia conflict, but this definitely won't continue for too long. On one side, ISIS and their allies are trying to take Kirkuk (the Kurds already said they could've saved Mosul if requested), and the Kurds are contesting this city with the Arabs. No surprise there: there are large oil deposits around. On the other hand though, most Iraqis are fleeing the ISIS terror into the relative safety of the Kurdish-controlled areas, where thousands of Syrian refugees are already hosted.

yes_justice June 27 2014, 08:28:16 UTC

The pegmersha are engaging ISIL/ISIS

abomvubuso June 27 2014, 08:49:29 UTC

Yes. Btw, there's a new real-time interactive map of the situation across Iraq on Wikipedia. Gives some idea of how complicated the rivalries are.

The name is Peshmerga :)

yes_justice June 27 2014, 09:07:57 UTC

Ah, late typing, thanks. Cool map of death.

luvdovz June 27 2014, 11:52:09 UTC

The irony in the whole situation is that the US will now have to cooperate with Iran to help the Iraqi authorities restore order in the northern regions. Talk of unintended consequences.

yes_justice June 27 2014, 18:10:04 UTC

Yes, Tehran has been gaming the whole bloody mess more effectively than USA.

ddstory June 27 2014, 18:15:15 UTC

#TotallyNotChessplayers!
#ThanksObama!
#AxisOfEvilFTW!
#YouDontBlockPeopleFromAccessToGas!

yes_justice June 27 2014, 20:33:41 UTC

"#YouDontBlockPeopleFromAccessToGas!" - shorter Dick Cheney.

Operation Iraqi Freedom wasn't exactly good for the water infrastructure, come to think of it, but boy did the black gold flow. I guess that's what people are nervous about, mostly. John McLaughlin's group was weeping for the oil, "something must be done".

Thread 7

johnny9fingers June 27 2014, 14:03:34 UTC

We will certainly have our home-grown jihadists come back to roost.

And it is also quite likely that some semi-fascist in the Customs, Police, or Intelligence Services will leak their details to the EDL or the BNP too, further inflaming the situation.

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right..."

yes_justice June 27 2014, 18:01:29 UTC

We made more than we killed.

mahnmut June 28 2014, 16:11:36 UTC

Something like those zombie wights in Game of Thrones. You kill someone, they join the army of the undead, duh...

cheezyfish June 27 2014, 14:59:43 UTC

Saudi Arabia is triggering the destabilization in Iraq behind USA's back

Is the Saudi government doing this or is it their extremist population doing this? Sunni extremist have never been buddy buddy with the Saudi government, and I highly doubt that changed with ISIS. In fact, my guess is that ISIS hates the Saudi government about as much as it hates America.

yes_justice June 27 2014, 17:53:56 UTC

Sure. Just as big oil doesn't control the military, and Dick Cheney wasn't a shill for big oil, so is the Saudi government against Sunni extremist.

Saudi press reported the ISIL invasion as an "uprising of the ancient sunni tribes of Iraq" and generally think its just soo cute.

This article explores a bit deeper, their "plausible deniability".

Here is their "official denial, in english":

"ROYAL EMBASSY of SAUDI ARABIA ( ... )

yes_justice June 27 2014, 18:05:16 UTC

US finds evidence of UAE terror group funding and then works with them diplomatically to solve the issue.
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-article-display-1.asp?xfile=data/government/2014/June/government_June47.xml§ion=government

mahnmut June 27 2014, 18:06:29 UTC

In all fairness, the information is still too conflicting.

On the one hand,

Saudi Arabia threatened by ISIS advance in Iraq

Could Saudi Arabia Be the Next ISIS Conquest?

But on the other hand,

Saudi Arabia rejects Iraqi accusations of Isis support

Saudi Funding of ISIS

Now that both sides are out there, each of us can make up their mind on their own.

Also curious:

Why the Iraq Mess Is So Awkward for Saudi Arabia

Did McCain Unwittingly Help Fund ISIS?

Btw, McCain should probably shut up about Iraq altogether, since it was him who personally bragged about having crafted a withdrawal road-map together with W. by the request of the new Iraqi authorities, duly taking credit for that "mission accomplished" - only to subsequently turn to the 180' as soon as Obama implemented that same agreement, and putting all the blame for the current situation on the current president. Disingenuous is a word too weak to describe that motherfucker. But I digress.

Thread 112

underlankers July 3 2014, 23:28:19 UTC

What has the West missed all along? That it's easier to build an empire for short-term convenience and control of resources than it is to sustain that empire. In the specific case of ISIS in Iraq, not only is it illustrating that America wasted a shit-ton of money and lives to prop up an Iranian satellite, but that as with the ARVN the new Iraqi Army is utterly feckless to fend for itself, which was already shown back in 2008 in Basra and Sadr City. Since 1919, the European Great Powers and then the Soviet Union and United States blithely assumed that even the resident settler-colonial Empire would dance to their beck and call and reality kept persistently obstructing it. So long as the EU desperately needs Middle Eastern oil and the USA's strategic needs ensure no rival has significant means to obstruct EU access, well ( ... )