Class and family in the US and A.

[meus_ovatio]

I've been musing about something. Beware, for I have mused and you are now subject to its consequences! Something came up with got me thinking about family and how class continuity can effect politics. For instance, anecdote-wise, about 3/4ths of those I know are worse off than their parents than their parents were at their age. The rest are either

Comments

[enders_shadow]

[politikitty]

And yet, mobility has not decreased in America.

Did I say that we should throw a party and consider the status quo to be acceptable, poverty to be ignored and the economy is stellar for people who count? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't.

But it is completely plausible that graph looks that way because of high levels of immigration and globalization which has greatly reduced world-wide poverty while reaping impressive returns for fat cats who don't need the extra money, but wouldn't have reduced poverty without the incentive. If that's the case, we should be a little slower to say that we want to turn back time and make America rich again by putting China back at subsistence wages.

It's not a tidy story with evil wizards and valliant princes. That's one small exhibit of a whole mess of data that you never actually care about discussing.

[enders_shadow]

The graph pertains to the US and you know what? You're right. Fuck them immigrants. they don't need a decent wage. they shouldn't be payed relative to how much they produce! fuck em!

Damn you are so smart.

[politikitty]

Wow. That's totally what I meant when I said "Is that enough? No. And I don't think we should stop our commitment to helping the disadvantaged."

I'm glad I had you here to tear through the spin and let me know what I really meant.

[telemann]

But it is completely plausible that graph looks that way because of high levels of immigration and globalization which has greatly reduced world-wide poverty

Paul Krugman dispenses with that point or has several times (the one about globalization and technology, etc. e.g. Germany or Canada.)

[politikitty]

Could you point me to an example?

Because Canada and Germany doing well and creating flatter productivity curves doesn't really go against the model I'm imagining.

When the wealthy in America see great investment opportunities in Asia, which they jump at because they'll get to keep a higher amount of gains relative to most other nations, the rich get richer, and the poor get richer. But the poor are in Asia, which masks the broader gains that people expect to see.

[telemann]

He talks about the globalization rationale near the end of this 8 min clip

[politikitty]

Bah. No you-tube access. I'll try to remember to check it later tonight if I don't get too burned out on the internet dramz.

[the_rukh]

Whenever I see him live (not as in person, but as in not a photo) he always seems to have a slightly panicked look on his face.

[telemann]

Yeah, he needs a media coach to help him with appearances. He also is a mouth-breather too, not good either.

[mikeyxw]

I looked into one of these charts and can tell you they are one of the biggest lies statistics can provide.

First, this one almost certainly uses the CPI. Something to know about the CPI is that they changed how it measured home prices in 1983, rather than using mortgages, they changed to using rents. This coinsided with a cyclical peak in mortgage rates which means the CPI was never adjusted for the decline in interest rates we've seen over the last two decades, overstating home prices.

Second, wages != compensation. Benefits have played an increasing role in compensation. Our health care, for example, costs more today than during the 80's and is typically paid for by our employer. We don't take it home, but we do enjoy longer, healthier lives as a result. Retirement also costs more since we're living longer lives, again, our 401Ks, pensions, or other retirements aren't included.

Third, imports have gone up. This is important because many components of things being built come from components that are now manufactured abroad. This changes the mix of labor as a part of what is produced. Since workers now just do the final assembly of cars, for example, there is less labor that is needed to produce the same number of cars since they are putting pieces together rather than building the components and then putting the pieces together.

If you put together something like this using PPI for inflation, measure compensation rather than wages, and account for the value added by imported components, you get a graph that looks much different.