Response!?specimen_47September 20 2008, 01:58:46 UTC
Oho, I think I finally got replies working... :x VERY LONG COMMENT REPLY IS VERY LONG! You are warned!
I LOVE THE IMAGE! It breaks my heart. I'm still walking around all... numb and unfeeling since I finished the book. Bleh. *sadface*
And now... On the first comment: Personally, I think Karen Traviss nailed Order 66. I laughed, I balked, it was a roller coaster of emotion for me (to sound completely cliche). I would've cried, if I was that kind of person, but I'm not. Lulz.
On the second note: It's to be expected that we "hate" the Jedi, because of the point of view of the characters in Order 66. Jedi genocide and everything is terrible, yes, but again you have to remember that all the characters from this side of the spectrum don't like Jedi. In fact, I think Traviss' books probably nailed these opinions for most beings in the galaxy.
Point of view is as important in storytelling as anything else. If there was shock and horror and "OH GREAT MANDA!" reactions regarding Jedi genocide, well... All of the characters would be vastly out of character, and the entire book would fail for suspension of disbelief.
It's not about them needing to repent or they had a slave army or they're the villains. It was about them turning on their own beliefs blindly for what they believed was a "greater good", but all the while they failed to ask the important questions: Where was the army from? Why was it "conveniently" ready when they needed it? The men have no rights in the Republic, why is that okay?
It's a hit of karma, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Jusik... I have no opinion.
The baby confession scene: I was torn between laughing and crying too. This whole book had it from me, actually. I was laughing all over the place, quickly dispersed with numbing shock.
Niner: My favorite characters are actually Niner and Mereel. I tend to zero-in on side characters instead of main characters, and I'm not sure why. But if you slash him... uhh. lol (I'd read it regardless)
Kad: I'm considering reading LOTF, just for the mandos. I'm not sure though. It is expensive.
Walon x Kal: not gay. However there is a gay couple comfortably integrated in Mando society in LOTF series, and it isn't INYOURFACE like most slash fanfics out there happen to be. Read one of the FAQ on Karen Traviss' website.
Neither Kal and Walon strike me as the gay type. But I guess that's what I get for having so many male friends and so very few female friends. All I see is... really strong friendship. But that's a mando thing. I don't blame you for turning on the slash gaydar and seeing it that way.
Imperial Commandos means... CONTINUATION YAY! That's all I care about, really. More Nulls, Commandos, and Mandos...! WAYII!
Re: Response!?specimen_47September 20 2008, 02:07:08 UTC
Actually, sorry to double up on the replies, but I do have an opinion on Jusik.
This might seem harsh, but that's how some people are. Family is vastly more important that friends. Very few friends cross the threshold into the family category. I imagine that since Jusik "went native" family became everything. Any friends he had back at the temple were either considered strangers because of their hypocrisy or because he simply wasn't as close to them as he could be.
Yeah, Jedi died. He probably knew some. Bottom Line: They don't matter, so it isn't worth the energy to analyze his "feelings". He has more important things on his plate, like Etain's death and Kad's upbringing and lost Omega sons to bring home.
Re: Response!?specimen_47September 20 2008, 18:44:22 UTC
I realize some people don't think that way, it is extreme. But I think it works for Jusik. (Apparently he even flips out on a Jedi in Mando territory in LOTF. He's all, JEDI SCUM blah blah. It almost makes me want to get through the first book faster. >_>)
Re: Response!?t_lyricalSeptember 20 2008, 05:16:52 UTC
Your response is BEAUTIFUL. And thanks about my drawing. xD (Love the GLaDOS icon, btw. :O )
2nd note: Ahahah! I get it now. That's a very good point, about the rest of the galaxy's point of view against the Jedi. I was madly blinded for my love of Jedi, lol. Karma's an excellent way of putting it.
Kad: Yeesss.. I'm thinking about that too. I heard Jusik's in there too and I'm just curious. I wonder if I've missed a few things because I haven't read LotF.
Walon x Kal: Haha, thanks for understanding. Even I admit, that pairing is way random.
I really like novels that MENTIONS gay relationships or characters, just to prove that it exists, because it does. It doesn't have to be a main focus, but I'm glad to hear about that from Traviss. *Goes to read FAQ*
Imperial Commandos: YAAAAAY! Most of the cast has "deserted" out of the army, so I'm wondering how Traviss will tell the story.
Re: Response!?specimen_47September 20 2008, 18:37:42 UTC
Yeah, I love Jedi too, but I got my first slap in the face about Jedi hypocrisy when I played KotOR2. My first play-through I was shocked, and I thought "How DARE they!" (like a true crazed-fangirl) and then I caught myself. I had to sit down (I was already seated, but you know what I mean XD) and examine it from a different point of view. It was kind of enlightening... as far as fandom can be a source of enlightenment, anyway!
There's even Mandos. You should play it if you haven't. I like to pretend my Exile is eventually adopted into the Ordo clan before gallivanting off beyond the outer rim to save the galaxy (and/or Revan).
I'd read Walon x Kal. If only for the lulz on my end. >_> XD
Apparently the next book (Imperial Commando) is scheduled for next summer. It's so far away D:
As for LOTF... I have the first book. But I'm having difficulty just keeping my attention. After the Luke/Mara prologue thing, it's all LOLIMAJEDIIMAWESOME and I can't quite get into it. I'll muscle through it. Because I know the second book (by Miss Traviss) is going to be worth the effort. I mean, I could skip the book, but that makes me uncomfortable in all the wrong ways.
Long comment one month later GO!ramirezhikleOctober 25 2008, 19:14:16 UTC
I'm sort of late for the bus for this considering it's been a month since this was all posted (I finished Order 66 only a couple of weeks ago). But I'm commenting anyway because I love all of these things being discussed!
First off, on LOTF: I have Bloodlines, Sacrifice, and Revelation, and I've honestly only been reading the Boba Fett/Mando parts. I tried to read the other parts, but I got bored. Oops. It's pretty easy to follow (so far) even though you're only reading around 40% of the book. :)
Vau!: I had a thought at the end of True Colors that Walon was gay. He's one of my favorite characters and I love that he's almost... prissy, I guess. Since he's never mentioned a wife or kids (or has he?), I thought KT might pull a JK Rowling and say in the end: Surprise! He's gay! But eh. I just love him.
My favorite about-to-cry-but-I-started-laughing moment: right after Darman beats up Kal, and Master Zey yells at Vau trying to figure out what happened. Vau's "philosophical discussion" cover had me dying.
Jedi!suck: I think I have to agree with Order 66's Mando/clone-centric focus. It's smart of Karen Traviss to give fans a better picture of why the clones would turn on the Jedi. Because just from watching Revenge of the Sith, I remember being like: What the hell! Jedi are supposed to be their commanding officers and buddies! Clones look like robots for just complying to Order 66! AND THEY ARE NOT ROBOTS. *rant ensues*
Depressing Stuff: I don't know if I'm the only Etain fan ever (she's not my FAVORITE favorite, but I feel like I could connect with her), but I was devastated when she died. I convinced myself that Dar and her were untouchable for the "characters who might die in Order 66" list. I can see now that one of them had it coming. Thing is, I sat and thought about it, and there were ways around all of that. Like how Jusik fake-Force-punched Ruu, Etain could have done something like that to the attacking Jedi. But oh well--what's done is done, no need to bargain about it.
I couldn't get over Dar screaming Etain's name over and over again in his helmet. That really got me. :(
I think I'll just stop here otherwise I'll talk forever.
PS - KOTORII is an awesome game. Except for the end. I've never gotten past the final battle.
Re: Long comment one month later GO!t_lyricalOctober 25 2008, 22:37:34 UTC
Don't worry about being late. ;D
Vau: I don't think he has a wife, hahaha. Oh, if KT did that, there will be much prancing and flailing around.
Aww.. I felt so sorry for Zey. He honestly tries.
Jedi!suck: Well. Yeah. But that doesn't stop me from being upset about it, lol. I think from the last three books, we understand that clones are not robots at all. I think KT emphasized to point too much that it dragged over into making the Jedi look extremely bad. :/
VERY LONG COMMENT REPLY IS VERY LONG!
You are warned!
I LOVE THE IMAGE! It breaks my heart. I'm still walking around all... numb and unfeeling since I finished the book. Bleh. *sadface*
And now...
On the first comment: Personally, I think Karen Traviss nailed Order 66. I laughed, I balked, it was a roller coaster of emotion for me (to sound completely cliche). I would've cried, if I was that kind of person, but I'm not. Lulz.
On the second note: It's to be expected that we "hate" the Jedi, because of the point of view of the characters in Order 66. Jedi genocide and everything is terrible, yes, but again you have to remember that all the characters from this side of the spectrum don't like Jedi. In fact, I think Traviss' books probably nailed these opinions for most beings in the galaxy.
Point of view is as important in storytelling as anything else. If there was shock and horror and "OH GREAT MANDA!" reactions regarding Jedi genocide, well... All of the characters would be vastly out of character, and the entire book would fail for suspension of disbelief.
It's not about them needing to repent or they had a slave army or they're the villains. It was about them turning on their own beliefs blindly for what they believed was a "greater good", but all the while they failed to ask the important questions: Where was the army from? Why was it "conveniently" ready when they needed it? The men have no rights in the Republic, why is that okay?
It's a hit of karma, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Jusik... I have no opinion.
The baby confession scene: I was torn between laughing and crying too. This whole book had it from me, actually. I was laughing all over the place, quickly dispersed with numbing shock.
Niner: My favorite characters are actually Niner and Mereel. I tend to zero-in on side characters instead of main characters, and I'm not sure why. But if you slash him... uhh. lol (I'd read it regardless)
Kad: I'm considering reading LOTF, just for the mandos. I'm not sure though. It is expensive.
Walon x Kal: not gay. However there is a gay couple comfortably integrated in Mando society in LOTF series, and it isn't INYOURFACE like most slash fanfics out there happen to be. Read one of the FAQ on Karen Traviss' website.
Neither Kal and Walon strike me as the gay type. But I guess that's what I get for having so many male friends and so very few female friends. All I see is... really strong friendship. But that's a mando thing. I don't blame you for turning on the slash gaydar and seeing it that way.
Imperial Commandos means... CONTINUATION YAY! That's all I care about, really. More Nulls, Commandos, and Mandos...! WAYII!
Reply
This might seem harsh, but that's how some people are. Family is vastly more important that friends. Very few friends cross the threshold into the family category. I imagine that since Jusik "went native" family became everything. Any friends he had back at the temple were either considered strangers because of their hypocrisy or because he simply wasn't as close to them as he could be.
Yeah, Jedi died. He probably knew some. Bottom Line: They don't matter, so it isn't worth the energy to analyze his "feelings". He has more important things on his plate, like Etain's death and Kad's upbringing and lost Omega sons to bring home.
Reply
Gosh dang. Maybe I'm just wanting more angst, hahah.
Reply
Reply
2nd note: Ahahah! I get it now. That's a very good point, about the rest of the galaxy's point of view against the Jedi. I was madly blinded for my love of Jedi, lol. Karma's an excellent way of putting it.
Kad: Yeesss.. I'm thinking about that too. I heard Jusik's in there too and I'm just curious. I wonder if I've missed a few things because I haven't read LotF.
Walon x Kal: Haha, thanks for understanding. Even I admit, that pairing is way random.
I really like novels that MENTIONS gay relationships or characters, just to prove that it exists, because it does. It doesn't have to be a main focus, but I'm glad to hear about that from Traviss. *Goes to read FAQ*
Imperial Commandos: YAAAAAY! Most of the cast has "deserted" out of the army, so I'm wondering how Traviss will tell the story.
Reply
There's even Mandos. You should play it if you haven't. I like to pretend my Exile is eventually adopted into the Ordo clan before gallivanting off beyond the outer rim to save the galaxy (and/or Revan).
I'd read Walon x Kal. If only for the lulz on my end. >_> XD
Apparently the next book (Imperial Commando) is scheduled for next summer. It's so far away D:
As for LOTF... I have the first book. But I'm having difficulty just keeping my attention. After the Luke/Mara prologue thing, it's all LOLIMAJEDIIMAWESOME and I can't quite get into it. I'll muscle through it. Because I know the second book (by Miss Traviss) is going to be worth the effort. I mean, I could skip the book, but that makes me uncomfortable in all the wrong ways.
Reply
First off, on LOTF: I have Bloodlines, Sacrifice, and Revelation, and I've honestly only been reading the Boba Fett/Mando parts. I tried to read the other parts, but I got bored. Oops. It's pretty easy to follow (so far) even though you're only reading around 40% of the book. :)
Vau!: I had a thought at the end of True Colors that Walon was gay. He's one of my favorite characters and I love that he's almost... prissy, I guess. Since he's never mentioned a wife or kids (or has he?), I thought KT might pull a JK Rowling and say in the end: Surprise! He's gay! But eh. I just love him.
My favorite about-to-cry-but-I-started-laughing moment: right after Darman beats up Kal, and Master Zey yells at Vau trying to figure out what happened. Vau's "philosophical discussion" cover had me dying.
Jedi!suck: I think I have to agree with Order 66's Mando/clone-centric focus. It's smart of Karen Traviss to give fans a better picture of why the clones would turn on the Jedi. Because just from watching Revenge of the Sith, I remember being like: What the hell! Jedi are supposed to be their commanding officers and buddies! Clones look like robots for just complying to Order 66! AND THEY ARE NOT ROBOTS. *rant ensues*
Depressing Stuff: I don't know if I'm the only Etain fan ever (she's not my FAVORITE favorite, but I feel like I could connect with her), but I was devastated when she died. I convinced myself that Dar and her were untouchable for the "characters who might die in Order 66" list. I can see now that one of them had it coming. Thing is, I sat and thought about it, and there were ways around all of that. Like how Jusik fake-Force-punched Ruu, Etain could have done something like that to the attacking Jedi. But oh well--what's done is done, no need to bargain about it.
I couldn't get over Dar screaming Etain's name over and over again in his helmet. That really got me. :(
I think I'll just stop here otherwise I'll talk forever.
PS - KOTORII is an awesome game. Except for the end. I've never gotten past the final battle.
Reply
Vau: I don't think he has a wife, hahaha. Oh, if KT did that, there will be much prancing and flailing around.
Aww.. I felt so sorry for Zey. He honestly tries.
Jedi!suck: Well. Yeah. But that doesn't stop me from being upset about it, lol. I think from the last three books, we understand that clones are not robots at all. I think KT emphasized to point too much that it dragged over into making the Jedi look extremely bad. :/
And Dar... *sniffle* ;o;
Reply
Leave a comment